Don't Hug the Goose

This week on Behind the Pulpit, the pastors open with hydration talk, Proverbs 4:25 in the Weekly Warm-Up, and another round of Book War as the season moves toward a possible clinch.

In the news segment, the discussion looks at a developing mRNA immunotherapy treatment for pancreatic cancer and how Christians can think about medical advancement, common grace, and the hope of healing. The pastors also respond to the recent White House Correspondents’ Dinner shooting and the evil of political violence.

The sermon recap covers two messages from 2 Timothy, focusing on quarreling, kindness, repentance, sexual integrity, hidden sin, guardrails, lust, and what it means to honor God with our bodies. The episode closes with a Theology Sprint on heaven and the Christian hope of life with God in the new creation.

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Chapters:
0:00 Intro
0:54 Weekly Warmup
5:48 In The News
16:56 The Great Book War
25:10 Audience Questions
29:30 Sermon Recap | 2 Timothy 2:20-26
44:09 Sermon Recap | 2 Timothy 2:22
1:00:21 In The News Part 2
1:02:23 Theology Sprint

Music
"Ventura"
Morgan Taylor
U76EPPNJDYZYU0Y7

Transcript

Dave 0:00

Hey, what's going on, YouTube world? We're here with Behind the Pulpit. We got a great show for you today. I am completely hydrated. Look how much water I got going on here. I am here with my colleague, Pastor Bob. Are you drinking your water these days? How are we doing, man? Are you are you making sure that you got enough uh liquid and hydration going on? What do you got?

Bob 0:16

I got hydration. I'm going to the bathroom. Alright. This is my favorite. You get these at Costco, they're pretty handy. What's your goal?

Dave 0:24

Is that is that one per day, two per day?

Bob 0:26

Uh my goal is always half my body weight in water, so that would be uh about four of these a day.

Dave 0:32

Okay. I don't always hit it, but that's the goal. Bob just told you how much he weighs for you who need a calculator when you figure that out.

Bob 0:39

They don't know exactly how much is in here. They don't know. I see markings on the side. Well, they can't. They don't see it.

Dave 0:54

Hey, we're glad that you're here. We have had a couple of wonderful expositional messages out of the book of 2 Timothy that we want to debrief with you. We have a news story to discuss that I think you're gonna find interesting if it's an unusual news story that we don't normally talk about this particular topic. We got some weekly warmups, we got some theology sprints, and we have your favorite part of the show, the Great Book War. As we continue to lead ourselves towards the end of the season, it's neck and neck. It's right there with the NBA playoffs. And so we're looking forward to seeing how Pastor Bob does today in the battle royale that we have come to enjoy the Great Book War.

Bob 1:32

But first, Tim does a good job of hiding the uh results until we actually walk in here or so.

Dave 1:36

He does. He keeps him pretty close to the best. We like to get started with a little stretching, I think, right? So for our weekly warm-up, what we've been doing is saying what's the season and what's the show number, and then looking in the Bible at a particular verse and going, Hey, let's try that. All right. So, what's going on, Tim? Where are we in the show? What's the season? What's the number?

Tim 1:57

Uh, this is season four, episode 25. Also, welcome to those um people who are not consuming the show on YouTube. Pastor Dave just said hello, YouTube.

Dave 2:07

Spotify, Apple Podcast, wherever you're listening or watching, we're going to be able to do that.

Bob 2:12

What are the options out there, Tim?

Tim 2:14

YouTube and then wherever you find your podcast. So you can see. iHeartRadio. Yes. Wow. We're everywhere, man. Stitcher? Uh, yes, I believe so. Really? Oh, okay. Sure.

Dave 2:25

I'd like to know who's on iHeartRadio right now. Please let us know. Get in touch with us.

Tim 2:31

I want to know. I believe it's that it's mostly Apple Podcasts and Spotify with a couple other in there. Um, people are listening. But very good. Well, we're ready to stretch out, Tim. What you got for us, man? All right. Uh so to correlate with season four, episode 25, episode 25, uh, today's verse will be Proverbs 4, 25, which says, Let your eyes look straight ahead, fix your gaze directly before you. And just to remind everybody what the weekly weekly warm-up is, is this is just a single verse that we are asking our pastors to break down as a way to kick off the show. A little uh little teaching to kick off the episode.

Dave 3:10

All right, leave the verse up there for a second. Okay, so notice there are body parts here. The first body part you notice is your eyes, right? But all throughout Proverbs chapter four, there's like the eyes, the ears, the mouth, the feet. And the most important body part it mentions is the heart. And so in Proverbs chapter 24, there are themes of the human anatomy that need to be fully engaged in the task of living out God's wisdom. With our feet, we gotta make morally good decisions. We gotta not turn to the left or the right. We don't want to swerve. With our eyes, we gotta be careful about what we see. Remember that song that was out when we were kids? Be careful little eyes, what you see. With our mouths, we want to watch our tongue and honor God with our uh was that part of what what what song was that part of? It's like a little kid's song, Be Careful Little Eyes, what you see.

Tim 4:04

It was the father up above is looking down. Yeah, Tim, right. Tim knows it. Look at that. Come on now.

Bob 4:09

Man, that wasn't part of like uh this little light of mine, right? Isn't it part of like a verse in this little light of mine? That's a different work, different song. Yeah. Okay.

Dave 4:16

So I do remember it though. In the uh Proverbs 4 section, which is really a collection of like 10 sermons that Solomon was giving to his son, the next king. This is in the middle of a sermon that's like, hey, take your whole self there, little buddy, and dedicate that to God. Most importantly, your heart. Uh, out of the heart flows all of the issues of life. It's the wellspring. And so, above all else, he says, guard your heart. That's the place where God works, and that's the supreme uh organ that we need to make sure we're giving to the Lord. So that's what the Proverbs 425 is all about. So, like, think about that. You gotta post a guard around around your heart and be careful about what you allow in and use your body to glorify God. We're gonna talk about that actually in our sermon recap today. But that's really what Proverbs 4 is getting at, man. Dedicating your whole self, your physical body to God and his services.

Bob 5:14

It's good. I would add to that, if you are reading that verse, notice that it talks about looking ahead, fixing your eyes on things that are to come. Too often we focus on things that are in the past. We let our shame hold us back rather than releasing it to Jesus and allowing his finished work on the cross to be enough, uh, confessing to him and then and then allowing him to bring healing. So um, fix your eyes on him, fix your eyes on what is to come, stop looking behind and look ahead towards the purpose that God has for you in this life.

Tim 5:48

As part of celebrating 175 years of God's faithfulness at NBC, we want to invite you to a special moment in that story. Join us on Saturday, May 2nd at 11 a.m. for our 175th anniversary tree planting ceremony here at NBC. For generations, God has been at work through this body, rooting us deeply in his truth, growing us together, and sending us out to multiply. And this tree will stand as a living reminder of that legacy. We'd love for you to come out and be part of this celebration as we reflect on what God has done and look ahead to what he will continue to do. For more information, you can contact the church office. Again, that's Saturday, May 2nd at 11 a.m. We hope to see you there. We're warmed up now, Tim.

Bob 6:23

It's hot in here.

Tim 6:24

All right, it's pretty warm.

Bob 6:26

Stretch one more time. Oh, yeah. Stretch that back.

Dave 6:28

And now maybe to get some towels in here for because of that, after the warm-up, these get ready for the segment that you all look forward to with the jingle and everything in the news. All right, Pastor Bob. We have something a little different this week. We do. We're going on the medical side for the news story. There was a pretty significant development. Do you want to kick it off and tell us what we're talking about here?

Bob 6:57

So there was a story that came out the other week saying that there was an MR mRNA vaccine, which has sort of been making headlines the last number of years. Um, not for a viral disease, uh, of which it's been of controversy, but for cancer, for specifically for pancreatic uh cancer. So, those of you that have any knowledge of pancreatic cancer, you know people that get diagnosed with it. For example, uh Ben Sass, who we've talked about, he was recently diagnosed with pancreatic cancer at a fairly young age. Um the reason that pancreatic cancer is so deadly is because it hides, and then by the time it manifests itself with symptoms, it usually has spread to other parts of your body and it's it's deadly. Usually within a year to 18 months, um uh the person succumbs to the cancer. Uh so uh the breakthrough of having a a vaccine that is is a type of immunotherapy, teaching your immune system to fight off the cancer cells, uh, could be a major breakthrough. And uh it's early in the process, but um people that have been working on this are a bit bullish about it. Um so I I think and we have some other comments to mention about this, but um from a Christian worldview perspective, I I think when I when I look at medical technology and things like this, this falls under the area of uh what theologians call common grace, that God um uh can work through through science, through medical uh doctors to to bring about healing uh because disease and death itself is a product of the fall. And so the fact that through through through being made in the image of God, through through uh uh creativity and and and uh intelligence, we're able to come up with these things, that's that's a pretty, pretty good thing. So I'm hoping that this pans itself out. Um what would you add to that?

Dave 8:51

I wanted to know a um an opinion from uh a resident expert. So I asked Rebecca Goldstein, who goes to our church, Dr. Rebecca Goldstein, uh, who is really very heavily involved in the science of this. And so I'll just share a couple things that she knows about because of her research on this. So, first of all, normally you think of vaccines, you think like this is gonna be something I get as a baby and it's gonna prevent me from ever getting.

Bob 9:16

Should we say to Rebecca specifically, has worked on cancer immunotherapy? Yeah. So she's done some work on this particular topic.

Dave 9:22

This is the right person to ask about this. So usually you think like um, you know, like a mumps or measles vaccine is gonna prevent you from getting the disease. That's not exactly what we're talking about here. We're talking about immunotherapy. And this is not to give to somebody before they get pancreatic cancer, it's to give to somebody who already has pancreatic cancer. And she explained immunotherapy in a way that I thought was really, really helpful. So our immune system can recognize altered cells um when they're cancerous as like foreign or dangerous without any help from us using a mechanism that's sort of like recognizing a criminal based on a mugshot at some point in the past. The system uh is what keeps us mostly cancer free, Lord willing, for most of our lives. But sometimes when people develop clinical cancer, is because the cancer cells have tricked the immune system into ignoring the cancer. So imagine someone blocks out the face on the mugshot or tears up the mugshot entirely. So instead of poisoning or killing the cancer, our cells themselves, like or killing the cancer, uh, immunotherapy uh is designed to encourage the patient's immune system to recognize and kill the cancer. And so uh that's a little different, and I thought that was pretty pretty fascinating. So uh it's the same kind of mugshot principle that's going on with these vaccines. What makes mRNA vaccines, like for example, the COVID vaccine, different from other preventative vaccines, is that we're injected with a recipe to make the mugshot ourselves, mRNA, rather than being directly injected with an already made mugshot of whatever the vaccine is trying to prevent. So that's a very interesting explanation. The whole mugshot criminal, this is what we're kind of working at inside of our immune system. Slightly tangent, but also possibly relevant. mRNA was not invented in a lab. Our bodies use routinely natural mRNA, the M stands for messenger RNA, as a way to build and rebuild anything made of protein, from enzymes to blood cells to skin and hair and everything else. Um so that's a little background behind the vaccine. The perspective that I think we can come from from a Christian worldview is like number one, this is exciting, you know. In the scriptures, we're told to love our neighbor, and this is a way of loving our neighbor. Advocating for the healing of the sick is a pretty Christian uh ethic to have. That's pretty straightforward. And I think this is something that's new, novel, but I think we're going to be seeing more exciting research technologically with this in the days ahead.

Bob 12:03

Yeah, think about how many people you've you've ministered to, or even right now, have some type of cancer and how much pain that that causes, you know, not just death, but suffering. Um so if this is something that that allows for the alleviation of that, I I think that's a good thing. Um interesting about immunotherapy, so uh at least my understanding, and I think sh uh uh Rebecca corroborated this, is that uh a lot of cancers are um age related, that as you get older, usually your immune system uh becomes um less effective, you kind of get out of fighting shape, and you you you stop learning how to fight off those diseases that are in your body. And so this is you know, this is like a the mugshot analogy is good. Uh also maybe think about it as a as a retraining ground to get your body back in fighting shape and then to actually fight off and kill uh the cancer cells that are that are uh you know growing exponentially and and eventually uh eventually could kill you. So yeah, so a good thing, very, very good thing.

Dave 13:03

A little caution. She said that uh she doesn't want to be a downer, but she's seen this kind of hopefulness before. Amazing looking results in a handful of patients, but a small study, and then sometimes those results don't hold up when a larger study tries to compare the new therapy to the exist or existing standard of care. So uh we want to hope for the best, but also how to take a measured approach in terms of how exciting this this is. Um but it's still encouraging to see new ideas being funded and treated, uh uh tested. And uh there's many of us that are sick and dying from all types of cancers, so it would be wonderful to have some hope on the horizon.

Bob 13:43

And one of these days, maybe it will work, right? So we don't know.

Dave 13:47

Speaking of heal sticks, Ben Sass has had two outstanding interviews. One just came out again this weekend. Um if you haven't chased that down, this guy is teaching us all how to die well from a Christian worldview. He is uh completely taking advantage of this illness to lift up the Lord Jesus Christ, and he's showing a tremendous amount of hope in his what is probably his his last uh weeks and months on this earth. So chase down Ben Sass. I think you'll enjoy l listening to his perspective. Yeah.

Bob 14:20

All right. Other story that made a lot of news over the weekends. This was a late edition. Uh probably you caught the fact that there was uh a shooting at the White House correspondence dinner, um, which some some people are saying is another assassination attempt on President Trump. This would make three uh in the last few years, which I I think is is rather disturbing, if that is certainly the case of what happened here. Uh but if you didn't catch that story, uh what happened was um an armed man breached security at the White House Correspondence Dinner, uh injuring at least one Secret Service agent, so shot him and uh it hit his his vest, so that guy is okay, um, but had to go to the hospital. Uh there was a manifesto that was put out, so it seems like he was targeting President Trump, amongst others. Um and uh early accounts describe the suspect as being deeply troubled with writings, the manifesto, some kind of uh ideology, um, and so forth. So um by way of mentioning this, I think the thing that we all can agree with is the fact that this is a problem, uh, that if people are trying to go in and kill elected officials in our country, that's not something that should be happening. Uh all people are made in God's image. Um God is, yes, providentially in charge of all these things, but this is this is not a very good thing, and we do bear responsibility for our actions. And so I imagine in the weeks and months to come there will be a sorting out of what happened here. Um, and and indeed the government should come in and bring some law enforcement there. Um But uh this is uh another sad day that this keeps happening. Uh it also seemed to me that they should probably have uh security a little further out, although I did hear people reporting and saying that the the perimeters worked as they they should. Apparently, this guy stayed in the Hilton, got through the first level of security, but then didn't get into the ballroom itself. Um but still a problem. Anything to add there, Pastor Dave?

Dave 16:21

Uh I think the word evil is appropriate to use in this kind of context. This is a real act of violence, it's an affront on the image of God, and we know in the scriptures that we're not to take up the sword of vengeance in a personal way like this. Vengeance is the Lord's, he will repay. It is um not uh okay to uh either endorse or engage in any kind of political violence, and I think we should say that period full stop.

Bob 16:48

And that lets that end, let's end in the news on that uh note.

Tim 16:53

So ends evil in the news. This Sunday, make sure you come to church hungry because our teams will be hosting a bake sale after both the nine and eleven o'clock services, and they're bringing out some incredible homemade treats along with freshly pulled espresso beverages. Everything is made with care, and every purchase goes directly towards supporting our students as they head to serve on their summer missions trip to Knoxville, Tennessee. It's a simple way to enjoy something great while investing in what God is doing here in the next generation. So stop by after the nine or the eleven o'clock service on Sunday, grab a treat, grab a coffee, and support our teens as they prepare for Knoxville.

Dave 17:28

And now we've come to the part of the show where Larry comes out and sings a silly song. No, we've come to the part of the show. It'd be great if you did that in your spot. Yeah. Two, like two, talk, two tomatoes. All right. We're doing a great book of war, but first we want to get caught up on like as they say in um high school basketball, scoreboard, scoreboard.

Tim 17:53

What's going on here, man? So if uh if if the crowd remembers, the most recent score, Pastor Bob has been going on a bit of a run, and he has pulled the score back to within one of defending champion of the book of war, Pastor Dave, um, who's had a bit of a chokehold over the competition for Pastor Bob has not had a lead, I don't think, at all this season. Um, and it will remain that way as Pastor Dave ends the weekly losing streak and gray church.

Bob 18:22

That was it was a good it was a solid recommendation.

Tim 18:24

It was a solid recommendation. Thank you. Here is the breakdown of the votes. Still pretty close, though. Pretty close. 63%. The score is now 10 to 13, and we do have a magic number. Pastor Dave is one win away. Clinching from clinching the Great Book War. Thanks to our friends I've got. I feel like you spent you spent way too much time making that graphic. Now, special thanks to our friends at OpenAI for allowing me. It looks like Pastor Dave's head mic is now a uh bit of a mole that he's having a screw too.

unknown 18:55

Yeah.

Tim 18:55

What do you do? You get you doing the hands there. You're like from one of the upside down glory uh thumbnails. If you couldn't tell, it's got crowns and things. Oh, I see. Um so Pastor Bob, hopefully you have a good book today. Because if you don't win this week, Pastor Dave will clinch his second straight book war title. So all right. All right. Uh you want to go first. What do we do? The loser goes first, so Pastor Bob.

Bob 19:19

All right. Uh sure, sure. Well, here I I have I have a I have a recommendation right here, this this book. Ooh. Right here. What kind of cover is that, man? So I took the cover off and had a little dust jacket there. But the title of the book is Sex and Money by Paul David Tripp. If I did have the dust jacket on here, it had a nice little lipstick kiss on the front as well as a barcode. Um Paul Tripp, if you don't know who he is, he he does a he's a biblical counselor. He focuses up focuses on the heart issues that we all struggle with and and how we can uh diagnose our idols and bring them under the lordship of Christ. And in this particular book, he goes through uh the two idols of sex and money, and I thought this was an appropriate book to uh recommend since Pastor Dave's uh message yesterday was all about this. The subtitle is Pleasures That Leave You Empty and Grace That Satisfies. So the first half of the book is dealing with sex, and uh he gives the big picture, he talks about uh uh you know the the various aspects of the hard issues uh uh around that, and the basic point of that section is that sex it's not primarily about you, right? It's about um giving to others and glorifying God. Uh and that sounds very counterintuitive, but he makes a pretty strong case in here, and I I highly recommend this book, even though it does not have uh the dust jacket cover on the front. Um so that will be my uh that will be my uh my contribution this week. Although I have read Pastor Day's book and it also is very good.

unknown 21:00

Great.

Bob 21:01

Assuming that's your uh your your uh your submission.

Dave 21:04

It is. Can we like have someone talk to Bob's agent about putting the right cover on the book and like trying to put his best foot forward? This is you need some coaching here, bro. Might be a problem for next season.

Bob 21:16

I'll just say this that uh I'm going back to uh old school. Back in the day, we didn't have these colorful covers. We had this. This is uh uh a call back to simplicity, let's put it that way.

Dave 21:27

Nice try. Okay, so we're gonna try to sell this book one more time because I try my best in the sermon, but I I don't want you to forget it because this is good stuff. Navpress put navpress put this out a few years ago. It's coming out on audiobook in June. It's by uh a licensed clinical psychologist named Jay Stringer, and it's different. So the title is Unwanted, subtitle How Sexual Brokenness Reveals Our Way to Healing. An essential book to really understanding this problem. The endorsement from Dan Alender, if you're familiar with him. Is this on the back? Without Rival, the best book on broken sexuality I have ever read. That's Dan Allender, one of the foremost experts in the area of trauma, healing, woundedness, abuse. This is a great book. In this book, there's three major sections. Section one, how did I get here? That is the most fascinating section in that he starts to talk about how maybe your sexual fantasies and desires are actually pointing you somewhere that is in the right direction. You're just not going all the way where they're pointing you. Section two, why do I stay? You know, and then section three, how do I get out of here? So I think you're gonna enjoy this book as a very different take on the issue of sexual temptation and how we really get to the bottom of it and what it looks like to actually break free of this. There's an image of a river that I've never really forgotten. I actually drew the river at the uh on this page just to help me remember this concept. What he talks about, like you know how when two rivers converge, like the Ohio River, uh it it it it's it's it's a combination of the Allegheny River and the the some other river. Uh anyway, so they come together, they converge. He says your sexual desires are the convergence or the confluence of these two sources. Number one, your past, and number two, the difficulties that you face in the present. The the place where the two rivers converge is is a conflux where you find the strongest current. So um I think it's worth your time. Understanding what is behind the struggle is part of figuring out how to solve it, and he does a great job walking you through that. If you like to read, it's available now. If you want to do an audio book, in about another month, it's on Audible. I don't know who's doing the reading, but it's already sold a hundred thousand copies, which is pretty good for like a basic Christian counseling book. That's like more than average. If a Christian like academic writes a book, the publisher might print 500, 1,000. I'm sorry, there's just not a whole lot of audience there. So to sell over 100,000 copies says something, and if you haven't heard of it, you're kind of missing out. So that's my recommendation once again today. Unwanted. I think you should buy it.

Bob 24:28

We recommend you decide. I did read it a few years ago, and I thought it was a different way of looking at it that was very, very insightful.

Tim 24:36

So it's good. Well, Pastor Pastor Bob, how why is your book a better version? Why why I'm trying to help you out here, man.

Bob 24:43

You're you seem to be my book, my book is more classic. I think Paul, I love everything, almost everything Paul Drip Tripp does. And I think if you want to get down deep, deep down in those hard issues, he's gonna pull your strings and give you lots of uh lots of uh uh examples. He's always convicting when I read him. So I did enjoy the Jay Stringer book, but um Paul Tripp's book is uh equally good. So maybe you should buy both.

Tim 25:09

Buy both. It's not gonna hurt. Yeah. Sometimes the hardest seasons in life are the ones we don't know how to talk about. Whether you're walking through grief, illness, job loss, a strained relationship, or just a difficult stress where things feel heavy, you don't have to carry that alone. At NBC, we offer something called Stephen Ministry. It's a confidential, one-to-one care ministry where trained individuals called Stephen Ministers come alongside people who are going through challenging seasons of life. These are not professional counselors, but compassionate, equipped listeners who meet with you regularly, offering encouragement, prayer, and steady support over time. Every care relationship is completely confidential, with men match with men, and women match with women to create a comfortable and trusted space. If you are interested in receiving care from a Stephen minister, we encourage you to visit the Stephen Ministry page on our website. You can also reach out directly to Bruce Cork or Carrie Isler or contact the church office for more information. Whatever it is, you don't have to go through it alone. Tim, you're kind of putting your weight on the scale a little bit there, man.

Dave 26:04

I'm watching you. I'm watching you over there. All right. So uh the next part of our show is where you take over, you take the steering wheel, you decide what we talk about. So I think we have at least one question, Tim, and we want to talk about it. So you guys asked a question and let's go for it. What is the question?

Tim 26:21

Uh we do. I actually realize now that I forgot to have a slide for it, but I can read it. I have it right in front of me. Uh, the question is after talking about Artemis II, the Artemis II space mission, uh, a continued space travel to the moon for a permanent moon base. My question is, will the Lord's prayer change from thy kingdom come, thy will be done on earth, on earth as it is in heaven to on the moon? Will the kingdom of will the kingdom come to the moon?

Bob 26:50

Yeah, I think that um anywhere we go, uh if if you're a follower of Christ, you're meant to bring the kingdom of Christ to that place. And uh, you know, of course, I think in the in the Lord's Prayer, uh, Jesus is on that physical earth. But I don't know that it's necessarily limited to that. I mean, we we live in a in a uh a universe that God has created. He's made us, as we talked about in his image as creative explorers. Um, you know, in on that Artemis II miss mission, and I I forget if we mentioned this last week, but um is it Victor? I forget the guy's last name, the African-American guy. He he's a Christian. He was uh giving Easter updates, giving glory to God. And I think I read that the the astronaut from Canada was a um atheist, and after that mission and seeing the glory of the heavens, he he is considering becoming a Christian. And so uh even in space, the gospel is being preached and people might be coming to Jesus. So um, you know, I I don't think that the Lord's prayer language will change, but the application goes goes far and wide to wherever God is calling us. And uh it'll be interesting to see if we uh if we do get to the moon. Uh I I know the goal is to get to Mars for some people, although I I've been seeing some videos recently saying that we're not going to be able to survive on Mars. I even saw a video the other day saying we should go to go to uh the Saturn moon titan should be the our our goal uh rather than Mars, kind of as a as a side note. So Titan. Where Thanos is from, right? Oh, is that is that where he's from? The moon titan? I you know, I don't know. Maybe we'll maybe we'll go there and find Thanos. He'll snap and end the whole human race. Inevitable. Right.

Dave 28:36

One of the first psalms I memorized was 103, and there's a verse in there that says, His kingdom rules over all. That would include the moon, that would include Mars, that would include beyond even our solar system. There is no square inch in this whole universe over which Jesus Christ, who is Lord of all, does not declare mine. That's what Abraham Kuyper used to say. So I think when Jesus is teaching us how to pray, he's not necessarily talking about location, he's talking about where is his rule welcome, and we need to bring that rule, you know, wherever we are, whether that's here, on earth, or perhaps in the future, extending beyond.

Bob 29:17

Should we have the star Star Trek theme right now? Doo-doo? Captain Captain Kirk. Boldly going. Boldly going where no one has gone.

Dave 29:24

Good question. Yeah. Fun question. Keep those kind of fun questions going. It keeps the show lively.

Tim 29:30

Every month we head out with City Relief, but right now we still have a few spots open for our May 30th outreach, and we'd love to fill them. If you've been thinking about joining us, this is a great opportunity to step in. We'll leave NBC at 7.15 in the morning, head to their base in Clifton, and help prepare for the day. Everything from organizing food to getting the outreach buses ready. Then we head out to serve where volunteers help distribute food, talk with people, and support the work however it's needed. We'll wrap up back at the base and return to NBC later in the afternoon, always before 4 30 p.m. There's a role for everyone, whether it's your first time or if you've served before. So if you're available on May 30th, head to the church website and sign up through the City Relief page. We still have some spots left. Come be a part of it.

Dave 30:10

So that is our question time. And now I think we've reached the part of the show where we do some sermon debriefs. We had two sermons, one from last week, one from yesterday. So, Bob, why don't you go first since yours was first? Um, and yours kind of incorporated the verse that I preached on. So you did the larger section of which chapter two, verse twenty two is a part, but you really said it in its context. So it'd be probably better for you to go first and tell us in a 60-second flyover what is 2 Timothy chapter 2, verses 20 to 26, is it?

Bob 30:50

20 to 26 is is what we covered. Yeah, it did it did incorporate you see my memory there? It did incorporate um your verse. Your verse was kind of central in the uh in the outline. What's interesting though is I think in the just as a side note, in the context of 2 Timothy 20 to 26, the youthful passions um is probably more primarily focusing on uh unbridled quarreling because these are issues that in the rest of the chapter Paul is dealing with, the people that are fighting over issues that uh they don't need to get fought over. Um, and that tends to happen in our youth uh because we have a lot of opinions that need to be tempered. Um but we'll come back to that. So so the uh the basics of Roman was we we talked about, we opened up by talking about the problem with fantasy football. So I showed some fun pictures about Arrowhead Stadium. Um I talked about using the analogy of uh people being spectators versus actually being in the game. Um careless players, we talked about Tiger Woods and and basically said that all of us should be aspiring athletes because God aspiring spiritual athletes because God wants to use us to build um his kingdom. And so how do we do that? And uh the three things we talked about were first we got to take a bath, we gotta take a bath, uh, which was which was fun. Second, we have to run the race, so we get a little sweaty, and then we can go back and take another bath. And then thirdly, as you um as you go through that, you start to teach the truth and point people to uh to Jesus, and we talked a lot about what does it mean to uh be a vessel of honorable use for the glory of God? What does it mean to live the sanctified life? Um and that was the uh the gist of the things that we covered in that message. So I forget, do you do you do you do a review or are you just gonna start asking me questions? Do you want to do a review of your sermon from yesterday?

Dave 32:44

Or do you want to how do you want us to work at Tim? I think just start with the questions. Okay. This is my notes from Pastor Bob. So it's hard to choose here, man, but why do young people have this urge for unbridled quarreling? Why is it that there's an energy to fight as a young person? He seems to be calling out an issue. And I guess if we're fleeing from something, then it must be something we all have to like maybe say no to. So what what's going on there? And does it go away when we get older? Does it like subside? Does it get like a little bit less I don't have energy to fight about this anymore? Or what like the uh what's going on here?

Bob 33:29

The biochemical answer to the street. I guess so. The testosterone. Is that what it is? Well, I think at least for guys, I mean, you know, I was doing re reading recently since I'm getting in my 40s about how you know women go through a certain hormonal shift, but so do men. It's just more gradual. And I think we become a little bit more tempered as we get older. But when you're younger, you you tend to have that kind of fighting instinct. Um what is it statistically speaking, um, when when young men get their uh their driver's license, their insurance premiums are higher because they're more prone to um you know take risks to to race on the uh on the uh the the highway, so to speak. Um and I think there's there's some positives to that because you know there's uh young people uh everything's new, right? So you want to try something new even if even if it's been tried before, you have the energy to go out and um you know live life and take risks, and you know, you haven't been burned um yet, as you will later in life, usually. Um so because of that, I think uh there's there's a tendency to to fight over issues that um you know maybe you learn later you need to be a little bit more gracious about. Um I and I think that's just a piece, a piece of youth. Um some people age a little quicker than others, uh perhaps, but a lot of people have to go through that sowing their oats uh season, which is perhaps what Paul is talking about. Both it could be both physically, it could also be spiritually, right? A lot of people that are newer Christians uh tend to take a little bit more of a uh black and white uh stance on certain issues that may be a little bit more debatable, um, tend to be a little bit more legalistic on some issues, so uh that that can be some evidence of spiritual immaturity. Um but also you know, physically it could get you know it works there as well.

Dave 35:20

I guess that's kind of um explanatory. And if someone were struggle struggling with that and they were to come to your office and say, Pastor Bob, you know, I didn't get my way in such and such scuffle or conflict or meeting or you know, whatever, how would you counsel them from a pastoral perspective? If you got a young guy, he's really fired up about not getting things the way he wanted them to be. And he's kind of in this quarreling mindset. How do you help him obey this charge from 2 Timothy chapter 2? What what kind of guidance do you give him?

Bob 36:03

Yeah, it's a good question. Um I'm saying him, but it could be her, I suppose. Could be her. No, I mean, but you know, all of us uh I think we have to decide ultimately what our uh what what are our make or break issues. So there's times where maybe there's an issue that is so important that you do have to fight over. I mean, you were, I think the week before you were the one that gave the analogy about the different buckets. So there's some issues where we should fight, and then there's some issues where we don't need to fight, right? So discerning those things would be would be an important first step. But if it's a um, let's call it a tertiary issue, uh, something that's kind of on the periphery of things that are being discussed, it's not an absolute, then um, you know, I I would probably start to ask, why do you have to get your way? Why is this so important to you? And is it worth breaking fellowship or uh is it worth harming the relationship over for the sake of fighting? So I think you have to kind of parse out those few different issues, kind of get you know, decide what is uh what is non-negotiable, decide what the hard issue is, and then figure out how to approach uh the relationship in a way that's going to bring mutual understanding. And always I think it's good to have a humble heart and and say, what is it that I can learn here? What am I missing? Uh so pointing the finger back at yourself, uh so to speak, can be helpful.

Dave 37:23

Yeah. Pastoring people you don't agree with is like the work of pastoring, right? So it can be something that's very relevant. Um, but walking alongside of somebody and helping them go, okay, yeah, well, we may disagree, but what does that mean? Like if we disagree with our kids, that that doesn't like make the relationship go away. We're still gonna walk with them and walk, you know, yeah, side by side and go through this together.

Bob 37:50

Learning how to disagree without being disagreeable is uh I I tend to think a lifelong uh a lifelong goal of of all of us. Mm-hmm.

Dave 37:59

Yeah. And you know, I'll also say this to a young guy like, let's say if you didn't get your way, do you really trust God to work it out in the end? Like if you were right, let's say you're right. They're fired up because they were right. Like, do you trust that God will turn this around and um allow that to work out in the ultimate sense? And can you walk in humility while you're waiting for that? And if you were wrong, is that an invitation maybe for God to be trusted too? Right.

Bob 38:27

So that's and I and that's good. That that's a good explanation of some of those heart issues that might be going on. Maybe your quarrel is actually with your creator and you need to take it up with him.

Dave 38:36

And it's also another opportunity to love people who are not like you. There's always a chance there to hey, let me learn some new things about people that are different from me. So, okay, uh, that was my first question. My second question is there's a synergy here, and I'm theologically gonna put you on the spot here. It says that God is granting them repentance, and Paul is saying that I want you to behave it a certain way, Timothy, not to be reactive, but to be gentle towards even your enemies, because perhaps God will grant them repentance. So is it our responsibility to repent, or is repentance a gift that God grants?

Bob 39:21

Yes. Explain I think I think if you notice, it do it does say God may grant them repentance. And so the issue is that I don't think we in in terms of our our being kind to people and how we interact with them, we're not responsible for the result. We're just responsible for our faithfulness in how we uh encounter people. And so it's the harvest that ultimately belongs to God, but he he's the one that's gonna be working on our hearts. And from a human perspective, we can't see what's going on behind the scenes. Uh it's only God that knows uh what's coming in in the future. But that does not at all negate us from living a life that's obedient to God. Um, you know, he's gonna use us uh to draw people to himself, and we should choose to be obedient. But at the end of the day, uh the idea of us having control is a bit of an illusion. Um it's ultimately God the one. God is the one who's in control. Um so I think what he's saying here to Timothy is that you know you you should be leading by example, you shouldn't be going out and trying to take matters in your hands and creating unnecessary problems. Uh really the countercultural call in verse 24 and 25 is to be kind. And again, in the context of 2 Timothy 2, um Timothy has a lot of enemies. Um, you know, Paul is about to be killed by an emperor who hates Christians, who stirred up uh speaking of slander, slander of Christians in the first century, Nero blamed uh the Christians for starting the fires in Rome, even though it was him that did it. And uh and even with that, God is saying here, you should be kind to your enemies. Now, how how easy is that? So think about uh maybe the the young the young man analogy here. If somebody came up to you and he started to to swing his fists in your face and talk trash, I mean in staff meeting today you were talking about Michael Jordan getting himself uh fired up for games. Um if somebody comes and tries to take a swing at your face and you duck out of the way, is your response to go up and try to hug them or is your response to swing back and fight back? Um probably the latter. And and the younger you are, the more willing you are to fight, usually. Um so Paul is Paul is telling Timothy, listen, don't be quarrel, quarrelsome. You know, the Lord's servant, meaning uh the pastor here, should be kind to everybody, should be teachable, should be enduring evil when those things happen. And and by doing that, you actually are uh living out a sermon with your life. And that's not easy, but I do think that's the call that uh that Paul is giving Timothy here. And as a result of God using Timothy, uh repentance may come to the person that he's ministering to.

Dave 42:12

Have you ever encountered an angry goose? So park with my daughter Felicity, she's two, two and a half, and she is the kind of person that actually would respond with a hug if someone attacked her. Well, there was an angry goose, and Julie and I are walking in and she's there, and she is like basically being confronted by the goose, right? So we had to kind of get in the way between our daughter and the goose, right? And it was dangerous, right? And her response was to walk up to the goose and go, hug. She wanted to hug the angry goose. No, no, no, Felicity, you cannot hug the angry goose. But that's a good model for all of us. Um what about the gander? Yeah, I don't know. It's good for the goose, it's good for the gander. I'm not sure what that saying even means. I don't know either, but the gander sounds like he's uh the one that's upset. Yeah. All right. Well, that's a good answer to that. Theological synergy. So it's kind of both and, right? Both and. All right. Both and good, good. Well, uh, anything else you wanted to say about the sermon before we move on to the other one?

Bob 43:25

Well, I um I think the last thing I would just mention is verse 26 is really interesting. Um, when you are kind, when you're doing those things, and God grants repentance, he Paul finishes by saying, And they, you know, your enemies, may come to their senses, meaning that you're just not seeing things, and escape the snare of the devil after being captured by him to do his will. And so I think the devil likes to inflame our flesh if we're not aware of it. And maybe the one who's kind of stirring the pop behind the scenes, and so part of what Paul is calling us to do is engage in spiritual warfare through conversation. Kindness and love and shunning those those that quarrelsome spirit. Um, so that's uh yeah, a good word from Paul.

Tim 44:09

Get ready for an unforgettable week this summer. VBS 2026 is coming, and this year's theme is Rainforest Falls. From July 13th through the 17th, kids will step into a vibrant rainforest adventure where they'll discover the nature of God and what it means to be rooted in a lifelong relationship with their creator. VBS is open to kids entering kindergarten through entering sixth grade, and it will run each day from 9 a.m. to 12.15 p.m. It's a week filled with games, music, teaching, and tons of fun, all designed to point kids to the truth of who God is and how much he loves them. Registration is open now with simple family pricing:$35 for one child,$60 for two, or$90 for three or more. And for just a few dollars more, you can add a digital music download so your kids can keep singing all summer long. We're also looking for volunteers, teens, and adults to help make this week happen. If it's your first time serving, we'll walk you through a quick screening process. You can register your kids or sign up to serve by visiting the church website. Again, that's VBS 2026, Rainforest Falls, July 13th through the 17th. Don't miss it.

Bob 45:09

All right, so Pastor Dave, yesterday we we dove into verse 22, and uh you talked about a certain issue. So why don't you give us a little bit of an overview of what you covered, and then I got a few questions for you.

Dave 45:23

Yesterday we decided to drill down on one verse, 2 Timothy 2 22, that flee youthful passions verse, and talk about the issue of sexual integrity. As we think about passing the legacy of faith to the next generation, one of the issues that can really hinder a church from being able to pass along the ministry well and pass along a legacy that's intact is the issue of sexual purity. I think we've all seen pastors and leaders who, because they fell in this area, not only suffered on an individual level or maybe with their family, but sometimes even the entire ministry uh gets taken down because of the behaviors on the part of the Christians inside of the church. In fact, I only mentioned a couple yesterday, Bill Heibels, Carl Lenz, but really there's a pile of dead bodies that uh unfortunately unfortunately in our generation have shown us by way of example how devastating this thing can be. So this is serious, and so we decided to talk about it without really mincing words, the issue of sexual integrity and how that affects the church's legacy. So, first we talked about understanding the battle, and then we talked about understanding God's strategy, and then we ended with some very practical measures that we can use to conquer this hidden dragon and take care of this problem so that it doesn't take us out. That was the gist of yesterday's sermon, including a special guest from Pause Ministries, who also shared with us some resources that are available and local for anybody who may be struggling in this area. We hope that you will be exposed to that and be aware of what's out there to help you in Jesus' name. That was the gist.

Bob 47:03

It was a good gist. Um, so good interview, good, good uh overall sermon, really challenging. It's something that needs to be said over and over again, especially in our in our day and age. Um so what I was thinking when you were talking about, you know, the Bill Hybels illustration, the Carl Lenz one, uh, there was some hidden sins there that were not um that were not brought into the light. And my question was, why do you think people hide? How do they justify uh living a life that they're not really living and keeping those sins hidden? What what are the reasons they use?

Dave 47:36

Hiding is usually connected to pride. It's usually connected to me wanting to look good, it's usually connected to an issue of I don't want to be ashamed, so I'm going to put a mask on, I'm going to cover this, I'm gonna put you know, fig leaves on, so to speak, to use Genesis 3 type of language. Rather than be honest, I'm gonna cover up. That's not what God wants us to do, but that's kind of a knee-jerk reaction. Um, so there's pride there, there's also a sense of entitlement there. Like I mean, it's none of your business. Like, I get to keep this stuff like hidden. This is uh something that I don't have to tell. So that's something that can be hidden. Um, another reason why we hide is we don't really believe the gospel. The gospel tells us that our righteousness is alien to us, uh, but we tend to think that it's directly connected to our own sense of you know moral efforts. Whereas really, if I'm conscious of the fact that my righteousness comes from outside of me, then what do I have to be afraid of? Right. So uh hiding actually reveals whether or not I truly believe the gospel, right? Martin Luther said, I'm simultaneously a saint and a sinner. And so if I really believe that, then I I wouldn't have any reason to hide. And um, so there's a lot of reasons why we might cover up, those are some of them, but the goal of God's word is to bring it out into the light because hiding never does any good.

Bob 48:59

Good. You gave some uh some guidance to us. You talked about the Blue Ridge Parkway and the guardrails, and uh I resonated because I've um been on some mountains in Colorado that didn't have some guardrails, and I was questioning why they didn't. Because you can have huge cliffs uh down the one side, you really have to be paying attention. Um, but uh you know what my question was why why what are the guardrails we need in our life? And are there times where people minimize the need for guardrails?

Dave 49:33

Uh guardrails make things pretty concrete, they move from the vague to oh, this is what we're doing now. Um, I think consistently you need to think about things like your time, guardrails around your time. What what how do you manage that? Um, guardrails around places, where are you going to allow yourself to go? What kind of places are you allowed? You're gonna allow yourself to be exposed to. Uh, you need to have guardrails around um devices these days. What you know, how much time are you gonna be spending on these things, and what kind of stuff are you allowed to view content-wise? You have to have guardrails there, and you have to have guardrails around things like um your work and you know how much you're allowing yourself to spend your life at work versus you know the other responsibilities that God has for you, such as you know, home or ministry and you know, the balance there. You have to have guardrails around a lot of different areas. The point of a guardrail, I think, when we're talking about spiritually, is what boundaries can I put in place that would make sinning harder?

unknown 50:37

Right?

Dave 50:38

What is the physical structure I could put in place that would make obedience easier and sinning harder? That's really what a boundary is. Uh, so what kind of patterns do I need to put in so that I give myself less permission to do that and um a more of an open door to do what God wants me to do? You know, there's an app um that I downloaded recently that actually um works kind of like social media, but the opposite? It it was designed by a couple people who really know the tricks behind keeping you addicted to social media called Be Present. I think these guys used to work for Google. Anyway, so they built in an app that has the same reward system as social media, but it tricks you into thinking your goal is to get off of it. So when you install Be Present, you give it access to your screen time and it starts like telling you get off this, and it starts rewarding you for streaks, and it's like a little bit of a little guardrail app that just keeps me in check to make sure that I'm not you know overdoing it on that. That those are a couple examples of of guardrails. Oh, relationships, you need to have guardrails and relationships, or you know, certain relationships may not be for you. So what's good enough for everybody else isn't necessarily good enough for you. Other people might have freedom to do something or be with somebody, but you may not have that freedom. So that those are guardrails.

Bob 52:00

Good. Very, very good. All right, so I did take some notes. Uh my eye my iPad died, so I don't know if you can see here, Tim. Probably can't get close enough, but I drew pictures. I drew your uh cycle of lust uh graphic right there. I also drew the brain chemical right there. Look at the brain pictures. I know, it's hard to see up there, but um, I think if it's like turn a bit to your left, otherwise.

Tim 52:26

Yeah, you can gotta see it there. Kind of there, yeah.

Bob 52:29

Anyway, I was I was having fun drawing uh Pastor Dave's uh graphics up there. So um two questions with this.

Dave 52:35

I worked way too long on that brain graphic.

Bob 52:38

It was good though, it was good. So why do you think this cycle you talked about is so powerful? And how do we rewire our brain? I think those are interconnected.

Dave 52:48

Sin is enjoyable for a season. Somebody might once said if you're if you're um if you're not enjoying sin, you're doing it wrong. The the reason why like the cycle of lust works is because sin promises something, it promises comfort, it promises relief, it promises control, but it doesn't deliver, it delivers slavery. But yet there's this reinforcing loop that happens there. I I want it, I desire, then I indulge, but then after I indulge, I feel this shame, I feel this distance, and what happens? I go back to the desire, and that's where we get stuck. Um, the desires that we have are not neutral, though. They are actually, according to 1 Peter chapter 2, at war uh on the inside of us. So the cycle is just something I explain just to name it. Uh, it reduces a little bit of the confusion, and it helps us to be aware of the schemes of the enemy who would like us to get stuck in that cycle for as long as we possibly can. To be vigilant, to increase our vigilance around this area, to recognize, hey, I don't want to get stuck in that cycle. So that's something that we need to be aware of. And then, as far as the brain thing, I'm not an expert, but I understand that the brain is something that can be trained and wired and then rewired as repeated choices and behaviors actually shape physiologically the neuroplasticity of our brain. So we can actually change God has made us in an amazing way. We're fearfully and wonderfully made, that we can reshape the way the brain is wired. So we may be stuck in a rut because the brain has like built a super highway toward a certain pleasure source, or Dan calls it a predictable comfort. But we can actually rewire our brain and train ourselves to have those desires reshaped. And I wonder if that's what the Bible means in Romans 12 when it says, be transformed by the renewing of your mind. You're gonna be re reinforcing something new, you're gonna be rehearsing something new, you're gonna be rewiring your brain. So what we said was not just removing the lust, it was also replacing that with things like the scripture and prayer and new behaviors. You're gonna you won't run you're gonna want to interrupt that with not just fleeing, but uh um acting in a new way and building new habits. The word he uses in 2 Timothy 2, chapter 22, is the word righteousness by pursuing righteousness, right living. God's grace is something that works over time as we practice. We practice. It's a spiritual disciplines have the word discipline in there for a reason. They're disciplines. Discipleship has at its root the word discipline because we want to discipline ourselves to be followers of Jesus now. That's not an instant change that we get zapped and all of a sudden God makes us, you know, totally have no no old fleshly desires anymore. It's a slower process of sanctification, but yet there is steady plotting as we pursue the Lord day by day, and God is good to help transform us in that way.

Bob 56:06

That's very good. I also did a little uh little little thing right here where I drew you running away from temptation right there. So that's a great stick figure.

Dave 56:17

I love that.

Bob 56:19

Flee, Bob, or as you say, fugo. Fugo. All right, last question. So um, and I thought those were great, great examples. Uh we live in a a as Tim likes to say, a cultural moment where uh Tim, do you like to say that or is that John Stone Street?

Tim 56:34

I like to make fun of John Stone Street for saying that.

Bob 56:36

Where uh our we think we have control over our bodies, and you were telling me throughout this whole sermon and then in that interview that I need to honor God with my body. What is what does that mean? Tease that out. How does that go against this cultural narrative, Pastor Dave?

Dave 56:52

We're in a moment right now where people say it's my body, my choice. Um one of my pet peeves there is when people use that verse which says you were bought with a price the wrong way. When it says you're bought with a price, yes, on the one hand, God has with his infinitely precious blood redeemed you from the clutches of hell and brought you into the kingdom of light. That is true, and that was a valuable sacrifice. But when it says you were bought with a price, what it's actually saying there is he now owns you. You are a slave to righteousness, a slave to God. John MacArthur wrote a famous book called Slave. Now that's not a you know word that we we like to hear in our cultural moment. We don't want to be slaves to nothing. I want to do it my way. I want to like be in charge of my own life. But really, 1 Corinthians 6 says, you're not your own. You're a slave now to Christ. He's purchased you and you are at his disposal, you're breathing his air, and you now uh serve him. So this whole my my body, my choice movement really is a perverted way to think about identity and ownership. Your body is not your own, and your body is not ultimate. Um, it has been given to you as a gift for a season, it's entrusted to you. You were created by God, and you were redeemed by God to be used by him in that way. So um the deeper Christian claim is not my body, my choice, it's this is not my body. This belongs to God, and I'm accountable to him because this is a very temporary stewardship, this life. Just ask Ben Sass. So freedom in the Christian worldview isn't me doing whatever I want in this cultural moment, it is becoming who I was actually made to be. Just think about a fish. A fish is free to flop outside the water. That's not necessarily what's best for the fish. What's best for the fish is to exist how God created it to exist inside of the water. God gives us freedom to be who we were originally created to be. So in our day and age, we think of our bodies as just, you know, for ourselves, for our own use, for our own pleasure. God says, No, I created you for holiness, and there's a right ordering there of your body. So flee what uh destroys your body and run toward what gives life to you and your your uh you know your pursuit of righteousness uh righteousness. And one thing I never noticed about that verse that I just noticed for the first time this past week is he says, you do this together. Flee youthful passions and pursue righteousness, love, peace, and something else that I'm forgetting right now. But what what was the other word? There's something else. And then he says, Together with all those who not gentleness? No, I forgot. Anyway, so he says, do this together with all those who call upon the Lord from a pure heart. Together. This is like a group thing. We're like doing this as brothers and sisters. You don't uh beat will uh lust by willpower alone by yourself. You do that by running in community with better people, running in a better direction, serving a better king.

Bob 1:00:24

Well, thank you very much. It was a uh a wonderful sermon. I was thinking about uh Frank Sinatra's song I did it my way. And uh how that uh you know message has been around for so long. Good summary, thank you very much. Um this upcoming week we're gonna be diving into 2 Timothy chapter 3. We got a few weeks on chapter 3, so uh stay tuned for that. It's gonna be good. I think we've come to the end here, Tim.

Dave 1:00:53

Now that just safe, love, and peace. There we go. I just looked it up. Sorry about that.

Bob 1:00:59

Now that we we've run, we've marathoned, now it's time to sprint towards the end.

Dave 1:01:03

Hey, by the way, extra news story. The marathon's the marathon record has been broken this past weekend. I don't know if you guys saw that, but we now have a person who lives on this planet who can run that far in less than two hours. That's never been done before. It might be the greatest athletic feat that's ever been accomplished in the history of the world. That was unbelievable.

Bob 1:01:29

Wow. Where is where is uh he he or she from?

Dave 1:01:33

New marathon record holder. Um I'm gonna say I want to say Kenya, but man, let me read it. I've heard those Kenyans can run.

Tim 1:01:40

Yeah, yeah. If you haven't seen the documentary about uh Keepchoge, um, I believe it's on I believe it's on Disney Plus um about the marathon runner. Yeah, I believe he's retired now. It is really interesting if you're interested in learning about like marathon runners from Kenya. It's a whole culture over there. Um these like big packs of of guys and gals will run uh long distances with each other every single day. It's very cool. Kenya, he's Kenya.

Dave 1:02:05

Sebastian Sawa. Sawa, yeah, he's from Kenya. One hour 59 minutes and 30 seconds. He's 29 years old. He took over a minute off the previous record, solidifying Kenya's dominance in long distance running. Incredible. London Marathon. All right, we're sprinting now, and we're gonna try our best, but we ain't gonna run as fast as that guy. So down to 60 seconds. What kind of sprint for you you got for us today, Tim?

Tim 1:02:33

So today's question is in stark contrast to last episode's question. So today's theology sprint question for you guys is what is heaven?

Dave 1:02:44

It's a place with clouds and harps, and we want to hopefully turn into angels. No, that's not it at all. It's the full, unhindered presence of God. Revelation says, Then we will see his face. Now, there is kind of nuances to this question. There's the present heaven where God's throne is right now, and then there's the future new creation, the new heavens and new earth, and those are to be distinguished in scripture. But all of them convey this great hope that we have as a future with perfection, holiness, beauty, joy. Um, but the climax of the Bible is not me escaping earth to go somewhere else. The climax is God actually coming to dwell with his people and restoring all things. Um, so heaven is relationally wonderful, it's being fully known and fully loved by God, it's restorative, everything broken, everything sinful, every kind of suffering is now made right, or as um as was it Lewis or Tolkien who said everything sad will now become untrue. It is uh an embodied existence, we're not invisible souls floating around, we are resurrected and enjoying a renewed creation, and it is the ultimate kind of joy. C.S. Lewis used to say, Joy is the serious business of heaven. So heaven is life with God as it was always meant to be. Nothing will separate us uh from him, and everything will be alive and never decaying anymore, because death will be no more, and we will be with God, and we will be his people, and there we will live forever and ever. Hallelujah. Hallelujah. What a hope that we have. Eye has not seen, ear has not heard, nor has it even entered into the heart of man what God has prepared for those who love him in heaven. Incredible hope we have. Amen.

Bob 1:04:42

All right. Thank you, Tim. That's it. Let's wait for heaven as we uh depart this week. We hope to see you in two weeks. Thank you so much for joining us for Behind the Pulpit. And uh till then, drink your water. There you go. Stay hydrated. That's right, stay hydrated. See you guys.