Behind The Pulpit
Our weekly pastors podcast where we discuss fun new stories, church events, previous sermons. As well as answering interesting questions from you!
Behind The Pulpit
Turkey Truce
This week on Behind the Pulpit, Pastor Bob leads a post-Thanksgiving episode with Tim and Noah, comparing holiday meals, sharing stories from family gatherings, and laughing through a friendly “turkey truce” with one of our most dedicated listeners. The team also gives a spoiler-free reaction to Stranger Things Volume 1 before moving into major headlines—from AI-driven shopping scams to the Supreme Court case involving First Choice Women’s Resource Center. Add in updates on the City Relief Packing Party, Christmas Eve services, and another round of Book War (with rising concerns about ballot stuffing), and it’s a lively start to December.
The conversation then shifts to a rich recap of Pastor Bob’s sermon on Isaiah 52–53, exploring why peace is so elusive, how the Servant willingly suffers on our behalf, and what the “great exchange” truly means for followers of Christ. With questions about surrender, trust, and the kind of beauty Scripture calls us to value, the team unpacks one of Isaiah’s most moving passages and reflects on how it speaks into the unrest many believers feel today.
To close out the episode, the Theology Sprint returns with a heavy but important listener question—one that pushes the hosts to wrestle honestly with the nature of evil and the forces at work in the world. It’s a brief but sobering sprint that invites listeners to think deeply, and a fitting way to wrap up another meaningful week on Behind the Pulpit.
**SUBMIT YOUR QUESTIONS TO THE SHOW HERE**
https://millingtonbaptist.org/sermons/behind-the-pulpit-ask-your-questions/
City Relief Packing Party
https://millingtonbaptist.org/city-relief-packing-party-2025/
Blue Christmas
hhttps://millingtonbaptist.org/blue-christmas/
Christmas Eve
https://millingtonbaptist.org/christmas-eve-2025/
Music
"Ventura"
Morgan Taylor
U76EPPNJDYZYU0Y7
Well, hey there folks. Welcome to Behind the Pulpit for December the 1st, 2025. We have crossed the Rubicon into the 12th month of the year. And uh we're glad you're joining us. Glad you've stuck with us through the whole year. I I hear that there's gonna be a Christmas episode coming up. Is that is that true? Are we gonna have a live Christmas episode, Tim?
Tim:Yes, we are gonna have a uh live? We'll see. Christmas episode. Still debatable. Absolutely, we will be having a Christmas episode.
Bob:Could we record it live Christmas morning so you could be opening your presents in front, like people could be calling in and telling us what they're open? Uh I I am actually gonna say no.
Tim:I think I'd like to be with my family Christmas morning, but I believe the last couple of years we have released the episode on Christmas morning.
Bob:So all right. Well, anyway, it's gonna be good. But before we get to Christmas, let's talk a little bit about Thanksgiving. Hopefully you all had lots of uh good food out there. Uh by the way, if you if you're watching this, uh comment. Let us know what you ate for uh for uh Thanksgiving this year. Uh does everybody do the turkey? Did you do a ham? Did you do some kind of alternative uh meat? If you if you don't if you can't eat meat. Um yeah. Oh, by the way, I should mention that I am alone today. Pastor Dave is gonna be uh is gonna be out for the next uh couple weeks. He's uh he's doing some studying uh or something like that. But we do have uh we do have Reese's Dave right here. He's gonna be joining us. Um uh maybe. Should I come back to him in a second? All right. Oh, I think we're out of focus. Oh here we are. Oh no, he's gone. Oh, we're falling apart already. Should I move past this? Okay, anyway. Reese's Dave. Uh he's he's over here. We'll we'll come back to him in just a second. All right, so let's let's let's go around the horn. How how was your Thanksgiving? What did you guys um what'd you what'd you guys what'd you guys eat? Was there any stories from your Thanksgiving meal? We talked uh there he is, there he is, right, Dave. He's he's speechless uh as usual. Um so how how was how was your Thanksgiving meals?
Noah:Mine was good. I uh had uh salmon and potatoes and corn. Salmon! Yes. Not turkey, but salmon. Yeah, we went out to my grandparents in Pennsylvania, Willow Valley, so had a had a fun menu, but it was good.
Bob:Are they are they anti-turkey or they just decided to go with the fish?
Noah:There were multiple options and the salmon caught my eye stronger than the turkey.
Bob:Oh, there you go. Salmon brings heart health. Uh all those uh omega omega-3 fatty acids. Salmon is my favorite fish, I will, I will uh admit to that. Tim, what about you? What did you what did you eat for Thanksgiving?
Tim:Uh so we did the traditional turkey. Um I uh my mom and I we got you stuff it? We did, we did uh with my my family recipe stuffing um that my grandmother keeps guarded, and it was good. My mom and I did the turkey together. We did receive a challenge on our in our comment section from one of our fans. Oh what was the challenge? Maybe I saw this one. So John Bucksbaum, he uh he he he told us all that we there's no way that we could have John may be our number one fan, so we need to take this seriously. I think he is. Um he told us that there's no possible way that we'd have a juicier turkey than him in the deep fryer. I'll tell you what, John. We did not deep fry the turkey at the Utgis household, but we did bake it and it was it was succulent. It was good. However, I went over to my in-laws that night and they did this like huge like they brined it, they did all this stuff, and they deep fried it, and I had a little piece of it, and it was delicious. So I think there's a world where we both can have good turkeys, John. But I'm glad we're gonna do that.
Bob:We'll call it a not a turkey trop, but a turkey truce right here after until until next year. What do you have turkey for uh Christmas as well?
Tim:I am a huge advocate that we should celebrate the birth of our Savior with prime rib. Prime rib.
Bob:Wow. All right, well make sure you bring it. Make sure you bring some for us to uh to enjoy on the first episode post uh Christmas. Some French dishes. That's right. There you go. All right. Well, before we before we get on to the end of the news segment, um uh since the House of David is over, uh I thought one other piece of Thanksgiving news is that we could debrief um the first volume of Stranger Things. Did did you get to uh do that?
Tim:Considering it's only five days old, we I think we need to do it in a way that does not allow spoilers.
Bob:Okay, well I wasn't gonna I wasn't gonna spoil it, but uh let's just talk about um uh just if you had to rate it, what what do you think? How did it compare to the other seasons?
Tim:Um I thought I it was cool. I actually I I understand that this these set of four episodes are really just kind of setting the table for the rest of it. The biggest complaint I'm seeing with people is that the characters are old. And I'm like, yes, but what do you want them to do? Like, I think if we're just able to look past the fact that they are older than they probably should be, I think it's fine. Overall, I really enjoyed it. I thought some of the twists were really good. I enjoyed the way that they recapped what was happening in their world during the first episode. Um, I thought the plot line is interesting. Um and it's it's really it was it was a fun watch. I enjoyed it. What about you?
Bob:I enjoyed it as well. I'm actually uh now going back and watching the other seasons uh to pick up on what I what I missed because there was all these different references to the previous seasons. Uh, I think I can say that. By the way, regarding the age, I mean, this was sort of the same thing with the uh with the Harry Potter movies. I mean, they started around the same age. They were like 11 or 12, and the actors were probably in their in their late or mid early 20s when they did the last one.
Tim:I think the same people who would be who are complaining that they're too old would be the same people that were complaining that the show is bad if they rushed it and made sure that they were being filmed the same age.
Bob:So those you can't you just can't please people. All right. Well, we'll we'll see what happens. I've seen a lot of different uh theories out there about how the how the show is going to end. I will miss my 80s references. Um uh brought brought brought back uh brought back memories from that decade.
Tim:So we are so excited to have our City Relief packing party on December the 20th, right here at Millington Baptist Church. This event will run from 9 to 11 in the morning with breakfast starting at 8 30. We are so excited to say that we are gonna get to pack over 1,700 hygiene kits. That's over 1,100 more than we got to pack last year. Praise God for what we're gonna be able to do for City Relief. You're not going to miss being a part of this event. Please come on out on December the 20th from 9 to 11, 8:30 if you want breakfast, and join us as we as a church come together to do amazing outreach for those in need.
Bob:All right, well, that was uh Stranger Things. Go check it out. Uh next thing up, let's talk about what's going on in the news. Alright, so we're we're in the news. Um, Tim, what do you guys have a news story you guys want to talk about? I uh I was trying to pick one out before. Um there was a couple that caught my eye, but they're a little bit older now.
Tim:Um How old is this uh Russia-Ukraine thing? We talked about that last week, didn't we?
Bob:I think we did talk the Russia-Ukraine thing.
Tim:I haven't seen a resolution other than the fact that they are uh Ooh, how much can we talk about um our friend in the Supreme Court? Is that something we could discuss?
Bob:I mean it's public. I think we can talk about that. So I guess that is that is newsworthy. So if if you are uh if you view behind uh behind the pulpit but don't know much about what's going on in in the Millington life, um uh one of our congregants, Amy Huber, who leads First Choice Women's Resource Center, is gonna be going before the Supreme Court tomorrow. Tomorrow there will be the oral arguments. Um they're facing the Attorney General. The Attorney General has um gone on a fishing expos expedition, uh, and they they are defending themselves based on their uh on their constitutional rights. And so this this is, as she was telling us, a uh a case that will have ramifications. Of course, it all depends on how the Supreme Court decides to to settle it. Will will they issue a a broad sweeping um uh ruling or is it gonna be more narrow? My my guess, based on the uh the this court and what they've done recently is it's gonna be it's gonna be a hopefully a definitive win for uh crisis pregnancy centers um across the country. So we're gonna be praying to that end that the cause of life advances and that God would move on the hearts of the justices. Um that's coming up tomorrow. Uh be praying for first choice for those oral arguments. We won't hear the answer until probably June. Uh, but tomorrow is the oral arguments, and um that's an important day. All right, so that that's one. Um this one here, I I here's here's a headline, Tim. Uh AI drives Black Friday boom but fuels fishing surge. So let me just uh let me read these. Black Friday 2025 sees more than half of holiday shoppers using AI tools for price comparisons, product recommendations, and even automated transactions, with 85% of AI users trusting these systems to place orders and execute payments on their behalf. Wow. Now, let me ask you. I know you've uh been known to dabble in in the chat GPT world. Have you have you used Chat GPT to purchase things for you yet?
Tim:No. No, I've not. I typically can make my own decisions when it comes to things like that. That's true.
Bob:What do you think about this? What do you think about this? AI, people people outsourcing their outsourcing their uh their thing. I can understand maybe the price comparisons. That is helpful. You know, if you're and and that if you're somebody who's who's marketing and selling now, you have to understand that there's there's tools that's gonna uh uh compare prices to other people around you. That's a hard hard market now.
Tim:Yeah, I think price comparison is one thing. Like if you're gonna like you can use it to kind of figure out, okay, this is what I'm buying from one product from where and seeing the different benefits. But I don't know. There's a lot of uh AI is uh it's just flying. It's just it's just moving forward.
Bob:It's all over the place. It's just kind of taking over like the internet, although I do think it requires some uh discernment in how you're using it. I think it's good for some things, but other things um I I am just not comfortable with asking it to buy things for me. Um that doesn't seem doesn't seem right. All of a sudden you get your credit card bill back. It's like what who are you gonna blame then? Say, why did you do that? Well, I was just trying to please you with with uh the purchases I made. Um here's the third point on this that the surge in AI assisted shopping has triggered a 620% spike in phishing scams and a 250% increase in fraudulent sites, with scammers using the same generative AI technology to create convincing fake emails and websites and impersonate major retailers like Amazon. Wow. By the way, have you have you noticed on your social media sites there's all these videos out there that are completely AI generated, but they they look kind of real? Yes, I've seen all these things a lot. Right well, okay, so the common one I see is is like there's uh there's a lion who's somehow attacking a man. If it was a real lion, probably should have killed him, but yet the people were chasing him away. Or or that or I can't see how many videos I've seen of somebody leaving their baby in the middle of their yard and a bear is sneaking up on them, and then all of a sudden they're running out to save the baby. Which I don't know why you would ever do that to your kid.
Noah:Why why why AI thinks that's a funny video to make, but I saw one recently where this guy was uh playing frisbee golf and he threw a frisbee and it was about to go into a hole in one, and this little kid random little kid just pops up and starts running right in front of the frisbee, and they're like, Stop! And he just stops right in front of the hole and it goes in. It's ridiculous. But they are becoming very popular, uh, not in a good way.
Bob:It's just like the new cat videos, right?
Noah:Joe Rogan has actually reported that he's had many times where he'll be on internet, social media, and there'll be like an ad with him promoting something, and he said, I never recorded that, that it's completely AI and completely fake.
Bob:Yeah. So I think one of the things I've heard people talk about recently is that the challenge with AI is gonna be increasingly blurring the lines between reality and what's fake. How are you gonna know what is true, what's not, to your to your Joe Rogan um example. So we're gonna have to we're gonna requ it's gonna require more discernment from Christians as they're engaging in these things in the public square. Um, you know, and and and really really thinking through with wisdom how to use the tools um in an appropriate way.
Tim:It's kind of crazy to me the amount of AI stuff I'll see online, like the amount of videos. And I know it's like I've I've looked at enough video footage. I as of for as so as of now, I'm able to pick up and tell when things are not real. Um obviously this stuff is only getting better. But there are people I see in the comment section and they're like, oh my gosh, this is so cute. I can't believe that this puppy did this. And I'm just like, you know. No, like it did not. No, it's it's this is not real. But you think for a second, is did that really happen?
Bob:Why would you do the double take do that?
Tim:You do the double take because your eye, your brain is like, oh, look at that, and then you start to see like the different telltale signs of it being AI, and you're like, oh.
Bob:Watch out for deception out there. So those are a couple news stories that that caught my eye this week. Um, so stay on, stay tuned, we'll see what else we can come up with uh with uh next week.
Tim:Hey friends, Christmas is a wonderful time of the year, but for some it can be really hard. If this time of the year brings sadness, loss, or is just overall so overwhelming, we'd love to invite you to our Blue Christmas event on Wednesday, December 17th from 7 30 to 9 p.m. Blue Christmas will be a peaceful, reflective space filled with scripture, prayer, and music, reminding us all that God truly is close to the brokenhearted. If you or someone you love could use a moment of hope this holiday season, please join us on December 17th. For more information, check out our website at millingtonbaptist.org.
Bob:Alright, so I think we're gonna move on to the book war recap. Uh that's what we have next here on our list. And uh so I'll turn it over to you, Tim. Do you have a do you have a uh a winner from last week? Yeah, I do have. I forget, what did I recommend last week? You recommended Accessible Church. Oh, that's right. And and Dave recommended some kind of old John Owen book, right?
Tim:Yeah, Dave recommended some old John Owen book. Um and I'll tell you what, I'm starting to get really suspicious of what's going on here. And I have a cup I have another bone to pick with.
Bob:By the way, so if will AI pick up Dave right here, and uh like all of a sudden Dave's gonna be Reese's Dave is gonna be in is gonna be endorsing these books. Potentially. I know. Uh what do you think about that, Dave? He's happy.
Tim:I so a second bone to pick with our listeners. I uh I I hope you guys know that I I see I see the votes, and some of you are voting twice. And I know this because you put your name down twice. Voter fraud? Voting fraud, we have wow. We have voter frauds. We're stuffing the ballot. We have vote we have ballot stuffing in and amongst our own behind the pulpit fans. So I I guess we've never said this. Please just vote once. I know some of you might want to vote for more than one book, but let's let's stick the voting to once.
Bob:I think we should go back to, as a punishment, we should go back to an older form of voting where we try to convince the two of you here.
Tim:Noah and I were just talking about that, believe it or not.
Bob:We were saying hiatus from your best. Purge. Purge the uh purge the uh the book um what would you call them? The book uh uh I don't know.
Tim:Because there are definitely some fraudulent book voting. Yes, there are definitely been have been some books that Pastor Bob, I think.
Bob:You know what? They're laughing at us. They're laughing at us right now. They're saying I'm to me.
Tim:Pastor Dave, wherever he is, is is typing in his group chat of of voters that he pays off right now. It's like, thank you for another week. I'm now winning seven to two.
Bob:Do you do you know the names of the people that are voting? Or or is it possible that Dave made up a name and then he's voting for his own.
Tim:There is a list of voters that vote every week and they put their name down for voter of the uh for trying to get voter of the year. Oh my goodness. And I don't know, statistically, it would appear that most of them vote for Pastor Dave. So I can't confirm.
Bob:Interesting. But uh Well, I do I do have a recommendation in Solidarity this week, since it is Christmas time. Um I just picked up this nice little tome right here by uh it's edited by Nancy Guthrie. And uh you might you guys might find this very interesting. So it's it's called Come the Long Expected Jesus, put out by Crossway, Experiencing the Peace and Promise of Christmas. And um it's not she didn't write it, but she did curate articles from people like George Whitfield, um Martin Luther, Tim Coward, John Piper, Martin Lloyd Jones, John Edward, Jonathan Edwards, Charles Spurgeon, um J.I. Packer, Randy Alcorn, John MacArthur, Frances Schaefer, R. C. Sprohl, Johnny Erickson Tata. Uh I'm I'm gonna be using this as a little Christmas uh devotional uh for myself this year. And so I I encourage you to pick it up and uh let the peace and promise of Christmas rule your hearts. Uh speaking of our our uh our sermon. So come now long expected Jesus, edited by Nancy Guthrie. It's uh it's again, it's small, it's digestible, um, but I think you will uh you'll enjoy it. So there you go. That's my my recommendation this week. Um Dave Dave has nothing uh this week, but I'm sure he's down reading lots of books in his uh studies this week.
Tim:He is uh he is plotting more ways to pay off the voters.
Bob:Alright, so we're not skipping the recommendation, that's mine. Uh don't bother voting, but go go and buy it.
Tim:See, for all you people who don't vote for Pastor Bob out here, I tried to get him to skip the recommendation this week for the sake of time. He said no, I will still recommend a book. That's how much it means to him.
Bob:I will say this though, I will say this. Even though I've not I've not been uh uh winning the skirmishes, I do have people coming up to me and saying they're actually buying the books that I recommended, which I don't know if that's the same with Dave, because uh people might just be saying, I like that book, but they're not following through and purchasing it. So this is like hidden hidden data. What this is telling me maybe I am winning on that front.
Tim:I think you are winning on that front because people are actually buying your books, but they are reaping some other reward from Pastor Dave because Pastor Dave is telling them uh you vote for me and I'll I will reward you in some other way.
Bob:So I also noticed people stuffing Dave's mailbox with uh with Reese's. I think there might be in addition to the fraudulent voting, maybe some bribery going on. No, what do you think?
Tim:There's something fishy going on here.
Bob:Yeah, not right. All right. So uh we should move on to the audience question now. Yes. We have a we have a good audience question. If you happen to put this on the screen, Tim.
Tim:Let's let's let's switch gears and I will read it for us. Um this comes from uh someone. So thank you for asking. We we encourage you guys to keep asking your questions. We'd love to answer them. Uh this person asks, please uh peace comes only with surrender. Why am I still fighting and not surrendering? Um I am having a very difficult time surrendering my two adult sons. I need help. What can I do? Well, this is a great question.
Bob:I I noticed this before when you sent it, and I think it's a very honest question, so uh thank you for uh asking that. Um I think one of the points we talked about in the message was was the idea that all of us, um, regardless our maturity in the faith, have something where we're we're we're holding on to. And and part of um growing in sanctification, growing in Christ-likeness, growing in pursuing him, is learning how to let go of different things in our lives and give them ultimately over to him and trusting him with them. And that's a lifelong process. That's not something that happens overnight. And I will say, uh, there's certain things that are harder to let go of than others. So, you know, perhaps uh to use to use the Dave illustration over here with the Reese's, uh, you know, you might get to a point in your age where, you know, sugar uh affects you negatively, and you can easily, even if you've been holding tight onto that, you can easily let it go because you realize the benefits. When it comes to family, um this is probably one of the hardest things to wrestle with as a parent and as a Christian. Um and I don't know who who wrote this in and why why they are uh why they are uh you know what's behind the question. Um, they're having a difficult time surrendering their two adult sons. My my assumptions, my gut assumption, is that um perhaps the adult sons are wrestling with their faith um on their own. Um and this this parent, uh whoever is writing in, is really wanting them to to uh to to change their hearts and move into a into a different direction of pursuing Christ. Maybe that's not the case. I suppose it could also be, you know, it's just really hard to to understand how to have an adult relationship with with your kids. Both of those things are very challenging. And we have a lot of folks in our congregation who who wrestle with uh prodigal kids. Uh I think we've spoken about that, Dave and I, on the podcast before. And that that is a really painful, painful uh thing to to walk through. Um and and I imagine if if this is you writing this in, th you are not alone if that is indeed uh the the case in your life. So your question, why am I fighting and not s why and not surrendering, well, uh you know, it it's just it's it's a good desire. It's a good desire to want your kids to follow the Lord. It's a good desire to want to have a relationship with your kids. Um there there is a paternal and maternal instinct, I think, that God gives us to want to love and care for our kids in in a in a in a very positive way. Um and so it's not easy to just kind of let go of that and and give it over to the Lord. And yet, you know, yesterday we had a we had a baby dedication, and one of the reasons we do baby dedications is that uh parents are committing uh to raise their kids to know and love Christ. It it's a sacred um duty, a sacred calling that God gives to parents. Um you have a connection with your kids in a way that you don't with really anybody else. You know, they are uh assuming you could have biological kids, they are literally your flesh and blood, right? Um so I so I think that's why it's so difficult to surrender. What can you do about it? Um I I've come more and more to the point of of of saying to people when it comes to witnessing and sharing your faith with Christ faith faith of faith with uh your faith in Christ with others, I should say, um, that you can you can pull out the best arguments, you you can pray as hard as you can, you can um you know keep pursuing them and pursuing them and pursuing them, and those are all good things, those are all things you should do. But at the end of the day, it really is God through the power of his spirit that moves on people's hearts and pulls them to Christ. And and I think at some level, and this may feel counterintuitive for you, um you have to sort of come to the end of your rope and say, Lord, I cannot do this without you. I am giving giving this situation, this relationship, the these people that I love deeply and dearly over to you and trusting that you are going to work in in their hearts. And at that point, you're actually unleashing the power of God because you're recognizing that you can't do it on your own. Um and it's funny because when when you talk about people coming to faith, and we were we were talking about this in the message yesterday, this the whole idea of surrendering ourselves to Christ, confessing our sin and giving our lives to him. The same is true with other things in our lives. Um whether that's kids or um a financial situation or uh some other goals that you might have, um, you you have to release them to the Lord and trust that he is gonna do his work in in their lives or in that situation. So my my encouragement uh to you is to continue to to pray, and and maybe maybe you are praying, maybe you're not, but pray, pray even more, get even more into the presence of the Lord and ask for him to bring his to bring heaven to earth and move in the lives of those that you love and you care about. Um I think that's that's what I found to be true in my own life, and um I pray that that will be true in your life as well. So that's my answer to that one, but uh that's a great question, and I imagine again it there's a lot of people that are wrestling with that at some level. Did you guys add anything? Any any thoughts?
Tim:I have nothing to add, no? Nothing to add. Right. I'll take it. Hey guys, we are officially in the month of December, so you know what that means. Christmas Eve is just around the corner. So that means it's time for you to take note of our Christmas Eve services that we are having here at Millington Baptist Church. We're gonna have three services spread out over two days, and they will all be identical. The first will be on the 23rd, so Christmas Eve Eve, and that will be a 7 p.m. service. And then on Christmas Eve itself, the 24th, we will be having two services, one at four and one at six. Like I said before, all three of these services will be identical, uh, same worship set, same message, and same candle light ending with Silent Night. So make sure you mark your calendars, take note of those times and those dates. We can't wait to see you there. And also want to encourage you guys to invite a friend. I think that Christmas Eve is the best service of the year to invite someone that doesn't really go to church that much. So whether that's a friend, a neighbor, or someone in your family, why don't you use this Christmas Eve as a way to evangelize to those closest around you? So that's December 23rd, Christmas Eve Eve at 7 p.m. and then Christmas Eve the 24th at 4 and 6, and we will see you there.
Bob:Okay, so uh sermon recap. Uh I kind of started to get into that. So why don't we um why why don't I give a quick uh quick uh quick review of that, and then if uh Tim or Noah, you guys got some questions, we can uh chat about that. Look at that, man. Tim always capture me with that uh like that that discerning look right there, like all right, here it comes.
Tim:Very discerning, Pastor Bob.
Bob:Like we're we mean business right here. Oh yeah. Um so yeah, the price of peace. That was the uh the message from yesterday. What are the most famous passages in Isaiah? Isaiah 52, verse 13 to 53, verse 12. Uh the song of the suffering servant, the fourth in the collection of servant songs that are found in um Isaiah 4 through 53. And as I mentioned last week, I didn't I didn't talk about this again in the sermon, but some people include Isaiah 61, 1 to 3, as a fifth servant song, although traditionally that's not included, but I can see where people make that argument. Um so we we talked in here and they we set up the tension of um uh why don't we accept peace deals when they're offered in life? And uh God ultimately is offering us the best peace deal in the world by sending his son Jesus Christ to die on the cross uh to make peace with us and him. And and as I noted, if you read through the entirety of the Bible, um and even and just even if you read through the entirety of Isaiah, at the beginning of the uh the book, uh the people of Israel are in open rebellion against God. They they continually turn away from him, and that leads to ruin and judgment and exile. And then the second half of Isaiah, we start to see these this these echoes, these these uh glimpses of redemption coming in. Uh we we talk we start to hear about this servant who's who's who's coming. Of course, we believe that the servant is pointing to the Messiah, Jesus Christ, who comes hundreds of years in the future of when Isaiah uh wrote uh wrote his uh wrote his book, his scroll. Um So how how do we get peace? Why is peace so elusive? And we we saw in this song there's uh there's three three scenes that show us what this suffering servant does in order to earn peace uh for us. The first one was um he gets an ugly rejection. Uh number two, he make he he experiences a painful piercing. And then finally, because of that, we we are privy to the great a a great exchange where Jesus on the cross took on all of our sin, all of our sorrow, all of our grief, uh, and and he g gives us his righteousness so that when we go before God as we as we uh uh enter into heaven, uh he doesn't see us, he sees his son. We are we are the theologians say we are united with Christ. We experience union with him. It's an imputed righteousness, which Paul fleshes out further in uh the book of uh the book of Romans. And so we we looked at that pretty well in depth. Uh we had a few examples. Um but but I imagine it's something that really touches people's hearts because uh a lot of people are asking the question, how do I get peace? Even if they're not necessarily asking it that way. Uh something is wrong with the world, how do how do I get right? Why do I feel like I I'm at war with this this this spiritual being? If you're if you're not a Christian, you might say that. Um why why are things just not right between me and him? Uh and and Isaiah 53 offers the answer of how indeed to get right, and that is to surrender your life uh to stop fighting, to lay down your arms and uh receive him. So that that's a general uh overview of the message. Um you guys have some questions? You'd you'd like to banter around about?
Tim:No, do you have any questions? Tim, do you have any questions? Uh I do actually. Um you mentioned um at you kind of mentioned this idea of uh how sometimes we'd want peace on our terms and sometimes we might negotiate. I think you you had a quote was peace comes through surrender, not negotiation. Um so why do you think we tend to negotiate with God rather than just surrendering to Him?
Bob:Yeah, that was you know, even for me as I was thinking about that this week, that was a I think a pretty profound uh point that I I think I think we find in Isaiah. Um so uh I I use the used car illustration. So I I've bought a number of used cars in my life, and whenever I go in to buy a car, it's never my my most exciting moment, but I research that thing to death. I want to see if that car is actually worth that. Is that the real price of it? And uh and I'll go in and I'll try to talk them down. Well, you want this much, how about I give this much? Because I always I I always sense there there's some kind of you know, they're trying to get they're trying to get something from me. They're trying to get more money from me, that that used car sales guy. Uh that I always assume they have more margin and they're not they're not really giving me a good deal, and so I'm trying to talk them down. And I I think there there is a sense in our sinful nature from the very beginning, and this is really what the serpent did to Adam and Eve. Did did God really say, like, is God holding something back from you? Like, you know, if you if you eat this fruit, you'll be like God. You'll like God is God has a better deal for you, is what he's is what he's kind of saying. So if you eat the fruit, you'll be like him. Like you'll get all his knowledge. Like the the serpent is trying to turn Adam and Eve, humanity, against against God. And of course, he he succeeded in the sense that they they they bit the apple. And now we're dealing with the ramifications. But the echo of that now is that every time we come to the God, if something something happens in my life, um, you know, uh the death of a loved one, if you lose a parent, like I lost my parent when I was young, um, if if you if you have a dream of where you think that your life should go when it doesn't happen, there there's a tendency to think, well, God has it out for me, or God's holding back. I you might think I did all the things right. I checked off all the boxes by being a good person or giving a certain amount of money or volunteering. I go out and I serve with City Relief. I I helped buy I I I gave 500 hygiene kits for this thing we got coming up. God owes me something. And and that is that is a tendency to think that we we have done all these things, now God owes us. And what what what scripture says, and I think in particular here in Isaiah, is getting at is that we we don't we don't have any leverage. God we had a debt that we could not pay, and God paid it for us. So we have no we have no leverage. God owns it all, God owns your life. Um and that is so counterintuitive to the human condition. And so we we always default back to that that sinful nature, and that's what we have to fight against if we're gonna really move into a full surrender, full ser fully surrendered relationship to him. How's that? That answer your question? Or the bring out a follow-up question.
Tim:No, I don't think I have any follow-up questions.
Bob:Are you looking for me to ask another question? You can ask another question. I was just wanting to make sure I answered that question that you that you gave me right there.
Tim:Okay. Um this is a kind of a bit of a theology sprint. So, Noah, stop me if uh this is the one you asked, but you also mentioned the um the argument of the was it the divine child abuse when it comes to um Jesus dying on the cross um for our sins. You want to unpack that what what people mean when they say that and and why it's incorrect?
Bob:Yeah, that's that's a good question. This is often a uh argument that's used by people that are more progressive leaning Christians, um that that they think that the the idea of what's called penal substitutionary atonement. So um it is not is something that's just um it it's uh I'm trying to think of the right word. It's uh it's it's offensive. It's something that uh w we just can't lean into. Um so that that's that's typically what a progress progressive would say. Now what they mean by that is god God chose to send his son and basically um abuse him. He he got lashed, he got whipped, he got sent to a cross, he died. And and it how can we then say that God is a good father if he sent his son to to do that? Um so I I think the uh the reason that that that argument misses the point uh i is is perhaps to some extent a misunderstanding of the Trinity, right? So and if you go and read any of the creeds, we we were talking about the creeds a few weeks ago, that there is an emphasis on the fact that every person in the Godhead in the Trinity is equally God but also serves a different role. So and so God, God the Son agrees to go and die in our place. Like he willingly goes and does that uh as part of the of part of the Father's mission. Um and so he he's willingly knowing that because God God is uh is is angry against sin, that God God God's wrath must uh come against sin, um, he knows that's the mission in order to save us. So I I I'll I'll revisit this quote that the commentator John Oswald says, and I think he makes it pretty clear here that this is why um uh the sacrifice was required. That the penalty must be paid for uh for sin. So um, you know, he he explains that uh when you have rebellion, and that's what we what we're in rebellion against God, it disrupts relationship, it it offends justice, it leaves life out of balance, and then you have to ask yourself, well, how do we restore order? Um it's only when there's an appropriate sacrifice, and this is rooted in that sacrificial uh system of the Old Testament, um, and and the authority of God is acknowledged, can you really have peace? And so this is his quote. He says, This is what the servant has done for us. This is not a matter of a raging tyrant who demands violence on someone to satisfy his fury. And this this is what uh these more progressive leading scholars will say that God is just, oh, he's he's just angry, he's just mean, he's doing violence to satisfy his his bloodlust, right? His uh his pound of flesh. But Oswald continues, it is a God who wants a whole relationship with his people, but is prevented from having it until incomplete justice is satisfied. In the servant he's found a way to gratify his love and satisfy his justice. So when it comes to the cross, um God is both, and the the famous there's a famous song uh by Jeremy Riddle, God uh showed that he's both love and j uh he's loving and he's and he's full of justice. Jesus satisfied both of those things, and that was required uh for us to to be in right relationship with him. So, yeah, so I think they missed the point.
Tim:Alright. Uh I'll ask one more uh that I think you might be able to answer quickly uh before we wrap up uh with our theology sprint. Uh you talked a little bit about beauty, and you mentioned how um you know our as a society our culture really values physical beauty. Um but the servant uh said that the serv uh the servant had no beauty uh that we should desire him. So how does that um change how we should think about beauty? Um and the beauty that um we may not necessarily be the beauty we might be missing because we're looking for the wrong kind of beauty potentially.
Bob:Yeah, I think because we live in such an image-driven culture now, and uh, you know, we were talking about a show before, but in in uh in you know time time in the past when when reading was more of a um uh the medium that people went to, th there there was a way of of of engaging with that that that caused you to imagine things. But now who who are the people that are put out in front of you on magazine covers uh as the leads the leading person in in the movie or the show or or or whatever, uh the the pop culture singers, they're they're all people that have a certain type of bone structure, and you know, you're you know, if if you want to fit in, you have to wear a certain thing, you have to look a certain way, you have to if you and if you look ordinary, you need to get a makeover, right? If you if you want to uh be on TV or or be in front of a camera. Um so so I think I think our culture has conditioned us to think that that is what beauty is. And and I mentioned that in in the Isaiah passage, the word the no beauty, the word that's used there, the Hebrew word, is the same one that's used of Rachel, um you know, Jake um Jacob's uh one of his wives, in Genesis chapter 29. He found her to be beautiful, it's the same word that's used, except she she was considered physically beautiful, but here it's it's the same word that's used for the servant, and it's saying that he has no beauty. Now, we we had a little bit of a discussion about this during our run through. Um I I I originally used the word the word ugly, and uh I I think more correctly is that it was that he was he was ordinary. Not necessarily that he was ugly, but he was he was nothing to write home about, right? He he was yeah, maybe he wasn't he wasn't hideous, but he wasn't like you just look at that person and say, wow, that person's beautiful. Um so uh the point I was making though is that when it comes to beauty, and if there's something that captures your attention, that that whatever you consider to be beautiful is what's gonna capture your attention in a way that you reorder your life and your schedule around that. I use the illustration of my my wife. Uh, but beauty runs a whole lot deeper than physical appearances. And and it's hard for people to wrap their mind around that in our world today because, again, we're so conditioned to think uh that person that I want to marry, that person I want to be with, has to look this this way or that way. And we we don't go beyond the surface. Because you might have somebody that has character traits that are indeed beautiful and godly, and you miss it because you're only looking at their profile picture on the dating app or the you know the social media site. So uh my point is I I think we have to recondition ourselves. And when it comes to Jesus, you know, he gives a lot of counter-cultural messages. Um the whole idea of surrendering to find peace, that that's a counter-cultural message. But when you reorder your heart, when you reorder your loves to find Jesus to be the most beautiful thing in the world and in your life, then that's going to bring you peace because nothing else, nothing else matters, and he's always gonna be there. Um and and in and in reality, I think that's that's part of the journey of sanctification, is learning how to reorder your heart so that you find Christ to be the most beautiful thing in life. Um and then you will always always be satisfied because he's always gonna be there. Great. Alrighty. Is that good? Oh, yeah, absolutely. Alright. So this upcoming week, James Rickershauser is gonna talk about Isaiah 55, so you don't want to miss that. He's gonna be in the pulpit. Maybe we can see if we can get him on an episode next week. Let's try to get him on the show. See if he can zoom in or something. Um, all right, you guys got a got a sprint for me? I got we got four minutes here. I got four minutes.
Noah:What do you got? All right. This is a little bit heavier, everyone. Uh somebody want to buckle up, but I think it's a a good one. Um so the question is were the actions of Hitler and the Nazis in the Holocaust and World War II attributed to pure human evil, or was there a satanic slash demonic influence working in those actions?
Bob:Hmm. Well, that escalated quickly.
Noah:Theology spread.
Bob:Actually, I I was I was listening to a uh to to a commentary about uh uh you know this this kind of creation of that that Vecna character in Stranger Things and how uh that they thought that that was a way of channeling and giving face to evil, but really maybe it's the whole upside down that's that's this evil dimension. Um and maybe that maybe that's a an interesting illustration for your for your question. Um so I I I do think there's a both and uh with this, and that's just you know uh off the cuff, that's my my uh my opinion about that. Uh human sin um well actually let me put it this way. So we people typically talk about the fact that we have three enemies. We have the world, the flesh, and the devil. Um so our flesh, being our our human sinful nature, i is something that um uh the the devil can inflame inside of us, if especially if we're not Christians, which I don't think I don't think uh Hitler, of course, was a Christian. Uh but the devil used that, he rolls it up base because the world's system, the world's uh uh speaking of our thing about beauty, the the world is giving us messages that that is anti, in many ways, anti-God. And that those things get embedded within our hearts, and then the devil uses that to inflame us and to play our heart strings. I mean, there's different examples of that within um uh the passage in 1 Peter verse 5. That's I think that's how the language is used there. Um so uh so so we have a sin nature that we have to fight against only if we're Christians. Um if you're not a Christian, you you're not gonna fight against that, and so the world's system, the world's um the world's uh uh messages are gonna get embedded in your heart, and then the devil is gonna use that to play your heart strings, so to speak, if if that's a helpful illustration. So when it comes to Hitler, um, yeah, I I think that his his sinful nature for power, for lust, for greed was there. Uh that's that's an enticing thing that people have a hard time uh fighting against. Uh, but was there some kind of demonic, satanic thing there? I you know, I I I mean he did he did awful things. And so I I have a hard time um believing that there wasn't some kind of force that was inflaming his his his lust for power and for for murder and all everything else that he genocide, everything else that he did. Um so I think it's a both and and uh and that and that led to of course one of the the most horrific events in human history. Um so that that's why we need to be people who bring God's kingdom into earth to to push it, push back the darkness, bring in the light, and see as many people come to Christ as we can so that they can fight against uh fight against sin and evil. All right. How's that? Very good. Good. Alright. See what you can do with that. It's probably more than 60 seconds. Alrighty. Well, I think we're at the end here. Uh, Tim, can I uh turn it back over to you? I guess so. But before you do that, Pastor Bob, what uh what where's your coffee from? Coffee is from Barrister. Did you enjoy it? I did. I I swung by, I grabbed it, here we go. Sponsor, is that I guess we can't say they're a sponsor of the show.
Tim:Well, do you know where you could get some barrister coffee?
Bob:Where could I get some barrister coffee too?
Tim:At the City Relief Packing Party on September the 20th.
Bob:All right, there we go. So uh making me want to go. That's it. Let's close out the episode, Bastard. Come to the City Relief Packing Party. Come here, James Preach, next week. Uh, Dave, we'll be back in two weeks, and uh, thanks for joining us on Behind the Pulpitz.