Behind The Pulpit
Our weekly pastors podcast where we discuss fun new stories, church events, previous sermons. As well as answering interesting questions from you!
Behind The Pulpit
The Thing about the Feet
This week on Behind the Pulpit, Pastor Bob and Pastor Dave explore Isaiah 7, looking at fear versus faith, King Ahaz’s misplaced trust, and God’s promise of “Immanuel” even in the middle of failure. They unpack the surprising euphemism behind “cover your feet” and talk about why the prophets sometimes used shocking language to get people’s attention.
The conversation also covers a heavy news cycle, including a tragic attack on a house of worship in Michigan, the passing of Voddie Baucham, and the ongoing persecution of Christians in Nigeria. Bob and Dave reflect on how to pray, how to think, and how to hold on to hope when the news feels overwhelming.
On a lighter note, there’s a Giants and Cowboys update, a quick football overtime debate, and the return of the Great Book War with two new recommendations for you to vote on. The episode wraps up with a Theology Sprint on the difference between biblical and systematic theology and a preview of next week’s discussion on the “age of accountability” and Isaiah 9:6–7, where we meet the promised Prince of Peace.
Join us for a thoughtful, timely, and encouraging conversation designed to help you trust God, grow in faith, and engage with the world around you.
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Trunk or Treat
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Music
"Ventura"
Morgan Taylor
U76EPPNJDYZYU0Y7
Well, top of the afternoon to you. Welcome to Behind the Pulpit for September the 29th, 2025. We're almost through the month of September, and we are spiraling, uh, falling uh on a collision course with October here in a couple days. October, of course, is the wonderful month where we celebrate not just uh uh well we we encounter not just Halloween, but also Reformation Day. Um lots of Martin everybody singing Martin Luther and A Mighty Fortress is our God, and that's that's kind of October. Uh it's a busy month. Pastor Dave, you're looking sharp in your shirt over there, man. You're getting pretty stylish. Plaid today. What do you think? You were. You pulled it off. I saw it yesterday too. Is that the same shirt from yesterday? Did you pull a different one?
Dave:Same shirt.
Bob:No coat though. How's it going over there?
Dave:Good, man. We just had some leftover turkey wraps from the bridge.
Bob:Had that had that go down.
Dave:I'm feeling pretty energized.
Bob:Did you shave off some excess body hair yesterday in honor of Isaiah 720 or what?
Dave:Every time. That was an interesting text, wasn't it?
Bob:Yeah. Thankfully you didn't read it in the other uh versions. You kind of went with the tame ESV made it uh made a G-rated. So here's the thing.
Dave:I guess we're going there. Uh in Isaiah 7, there's an image used of the king of Assyria as if he's like a razor that God's gonna wield to shave off extra stubble from a person's hair. And in chapter 7, verses 20, 21, that area he says, shave off the hair from your feet. And typically in the Hebrew language, feet is just as in any culture, any language, there's always euphemisms. So things like toileting or private parts get a euphemism. And feet was the euphemism in the Hebrew culture for the private area. So it's possible that that is referring to hair on a certain part of your body that I wasn't ready to read in the middle of a church service on a Sunday morning, but that's what the prophet said. Rather provocative, wouldn't you say?
Bob:I think that was pretty provocative, and this should cue up the uh the theme music right now. Anyway, it was a wonderful sermon, Pastor Dave. Uh glad that you brought that up. Uh let's need some explanation.
Dave:Hold on, we're just gonna go there. So Didn't you look um here's the thing about the feet. So, like, just a man in the Hebrew culture would wear a tunic and a cloak, right? And so when he would have to go to the restroom or relieve himself, he would disrobe, and the robe would be bundled up and gathered around his feet. So to go to the restroom, it was colloquially called covering your feet. And that's what we everybody knew what it meant. Like go to the John, whatever that was, cover your feet.
Bob:Did this include the the the public restrooms at the time or or just the uh the home, the home restroom?
Dave:Anyplace. So Saul famously in a cave is covering his feet, and David goes in there, finds him, cuts off a piece of his robe. He is probably going to the bathroom. So that that is a euphemism that the Hebrew culture uses. So when you see the word feet in the Old Testament, you've got to go, is this feet, or what exactly are they talking about?
Bob:Sometimes it's feet, sometimes it's not feet. Those prophets back in the day knew how to get uh your attention, I must say. If you read through the prophets, they they comment on a lot of issues and uh they they uh they they use some language to get your attention, uh such as Isaiah 7 and Ezekiel 16 and other places.
Tim:So if you're looking for a new and creative way to tell someone that you are utilizing the restroom, try I need to go cover my feet.
Bob:Tim, I gotta go cover my feet. I'll see you later.
Dave:Right. It's shocking language. Um, it's meant to be shocking language because um sometimes the Hebrew prophets have to talk about some important stuff.
Bob:That gets your attention.
Dave:It's meant to be shocking on purpose. Yeah.
Bob:That's good. Well, we'll talk more about that as we get later into our show today. For now, let's talk about our first sponsor of our episode. The the highlighting sponsor is Trunk or Treats. Uh, this this they have been sponsoring our show for quite some time now. We are looking right now for event and candy donations. So if you are looking to donate uh candy, if you want to serve, you can scan that QR code that is just screaming at you from your screen right there. Uh that event is going to be October the 18th, 3 to 5 p.m. And uh the Trunk Retreat is a big fan of Behind the Pulpit and uh October, as we're spiraling towards October in our event today. So go check out Trunk Retreat. Uh, you won't be disappointed. Trunk Retreat loves Behind the Pulpit. It does, they do. All right. Well, speaking of October, as we end September, we've had lots of things that have happened, uh, both uh crazy things, sad things. September's been a rather eventful month, especially the second half. So let's dive into our world-famous segment in the news. All right, so Pastor Dave, I'm not really sure where to begin here. We've had uh we've had assassinations that we've been covering the last couple weeks. Uh we've had some Christian leaders who have passed away suddenly. Um how about we stop start at the top with uh another shocking thing that that came across my newsfeed yesterday. There was a um attack, another attack on a uh a house of worship over in Michigan. It was a uh Mormon um did the Mormons call it a church? I forget. What are they called? The Mormon temple over there in uh Michigan. And um uh ten people were injured from gunshot wounds. I think four people died, I heard this morning. And uh this began or ended, I forget what the order was here, with the with the the uh attacker driving his car into the temple and causing the temple to go up in flames on fire, I'm sure traumatizing everybody that was there as well as causing the loss of life. I I think uh what I saw heard this morning is the guy was a uh armed service veteran of some kind. Um, but this is this is a very tragic event and seems to be things that we're hearing more and more about. Earlier in the month, we had um an attacker uh shooting a uh kid service at a Catholic church. Um it sort of maybe ask, what's next? Uh did you happen to catch this, Pastor Dave, on your newsfeed yesterday?
Dave:Very disturbing story, and I think at least four people have tragically passed away, and a bunch of other people are wounded. But because there was a fire, there was some more um I think investigation that needed to happen. I haven't really looked at the news this morning, but devastating story, and uh certainly our hearts and prayers go out to the families who are uh experiencing tremendous loss as a result of going to Sunday worship.
Bob:So this was uh Yeah, this was this was not not good at all. Not good at all. I'm looking at one here from June. Was there another one that happened in June? I must have put the wrong one in here. I gotta put September. Man. What now what are we to make of these uh of these these things that are happening? Um some people were saying, and I think even from the administration is saying that there's specific attacks that are coming against Christianity. Christianity. Alright, so here's the headline. There was a mass shooting at the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in Grand Blanc, Michigan, on Sunday, September the twenty-eighth. At least four people were killed, eight more were wounded. Um it was a forty-year-old attacker, he drove his vehicle into church during the services, and then and then got out, I guess Terminator style, and started firing at people with an assault rifle. Um, and then set the building on fire. I mean that this is like just unimanageable. Can you imagine somebody driving their car into our church worship service on a Sunday morning and then coming out with a semi-autoc rapmatic rifle and just starting to shoot? This is this is what happened here. It's crazy.
Dave:I mean, it's it's absolutely horrific story, and uh we're still waiting for more information to come out about the news story. I have noticed that people are they rush to judgment and they kind of want to make a headline or say something sometimes before the facts come out. So I've been kind of waiting to see what's going on here with the motive and what was wrong, but it certainly seems like a very troubled person who would commit such a violent act.
Bob:Yeah, did did he have some kind of connection with that that particular ward, right? Isn't there a ward in the Mormon church? I think they call I think they call the section wards. Ward something. I don't not familiar with that terminology.
Dave:Okay.
Bob:All right. Anyway, so that happened yesterday. Uh our prayers are with all those who are affected, and um uh we just gonna pray for God's protection over all houses of worship and pray that this would come to an end.
Dave:Lord have mercy.
Bob:The second news story, uh, another sad one, suddenly this past week, um a well-known pastor, Vody Bauchham, uh, passed away. And uh I I imagine some of you may know who he is, some of you might not know who he is. I actually was uh talking with a uh uh uh speaker rep who represents him, and we were um considering inviting him to come be part of our Contend conference in 2027, our apologetics conference, and then I got the news this week that he passed away, so um so unfortunately Vodi won't be coming. But Vody Bauckham uh I you know, personally I I I had a a great admiration for him, uh read a number of his books. Uh recently he had a couple books that in the evangelical world would have been considered controversial. Uh he wrote a book called Fault Lines, which was talking about um uh the infiltration of critical critical theory, uh critical race theory, things like that that have come into the evangelical church and how that was dividing the church over race. Vodie was a uh African-American um man. Um he also wrote a book called It's Not Like Being Black, criticizing the LGBT movement, and so he wasn't gun shy about uh cultural issues. He would often talk about how the culture shouldn't be dictating our theology, but it is scripture itself that should be dictating our theology. Um he was uh the president of a new seminary down in Florida. He just came back from Africa where he was the dean um over at African Christian University in Zambia and uh well known in the SBC from Texas. He was a apologetic speaker with Stan to Reason back in the day. That's where I first uh came uh came into contact with him. I heard him speak back in my seminary days, and he was he was quite a powerful speaker and knew how to bring the gospel. And uh it was uh it's a big loss this week to hear that Vodi passed away. Uh what was your connection with uh Vodi? You you were familiar with him, right?
Dave:I got introduced to him back in 200 um six. He wrote a book called Family Driven Faith. Back then it was really popular to name things like driven, like the purpose-driven life or the gospel-driven culture, whatever. He wrote family-driven faith. So his things were driven before they were centered, right? Yeah. So he was uh very um influential in terms of the family worship movement and homeschooling movement.
Bob:Yes. Yes.
Dave:Yeah. He was a big proponent of removing our children from the public school. I think he has a famous quote, uh, something like Um we should not be surprised if we send our kids over to Rome.
Bob:Caesar and Turn our kids over to Caesar and not be surprised if they come back Romans.
Dave:Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So uh certainly a Titan of the Faith, he could proclaim the gospel and thunder away from the pulpit. Uh he's more popular in the kind of circles that were like Shepherd's Conference, John MacArthur, those type of uh evangelicals. Yeah. Um great minister of God. We lost a Titan of the Faith, very young, I think it was 56. 56. I know he had some cardiovascular issues a couple years ago, maybe it's related to that, but they didn't really clarify, right? Yeah. So after Fault Lines, um in 2021, I think he published that book, he started recognizing that there was a new critique. So after kind of the so the the woke movement sort of started and picked up a lot of steam in the late 20 2010s. So 2016, 17, 18, 19.
Bob:Yeah, he would say he was he was critiquing it before it happened, but it became full-blown in 2018, 19, yeah.
Dave:Okay. So, you know, he wrote that book, and then it became a little bit more commonplace to offer a critique towards critical theory, critical race theory, queer theory, these types of Marxist Marxist categories. And as soon as it became a little bit more commonplace to critique um the movement, a new critique came out, basically labeling um most of the material uh that critiques that movement as Christian nationalism. And so he actually said in 2021 he first heard that term and he had to go look it up. Like, what is it what are they talking about? Why are they calling me this? Right? And so, you know, I think Vode was um pretty wise, and he realized right away that what that term was, that that new term that was being popularized, Christian nationalism, was a boogeyman. It was a term basically to shut down um any sort of critique, and especially the term white Christian nationalism. So if you have the categories of oppressed and oppressor, and um you realize that Christians are gonna oppress non-Christians, men are gonna oppress women, and you know documented immigrants are gonna oppress an undocumented immigrants. So there's always these two categories, right? And Vodhi said if you say if you say the three things together, white Christian nationalism, that's like a triple word score in Scrabble. Like you get to you get to pull the ultimate you know Trump card there. And so that became like a slur. Oh, you're you're just a white Christian nationalist. And Vodi's like, I'm I'm black, first of all. And they're and he would always say, What do you mean? Like, define terms. What do you mean by Christian nationalism? And then oftentimes people can't define that, they just throw it out there like you're a Christian nationalist. And um, if it's anything like I want my Christianity to influence the government, Vodi's like, I'm all in. Yeah, I guess according to you, so I'm a Christian nationalist. Now what? Uh actually in Zambia, Zambia is a Christian nation. So uh, you know, if you read the governing constitutional documents, he's like, This is a Christian nation, it's black. So what are you saying about us? How exactly are we oppressing anyone? Who are we oppressing? Tell us what we're doing wrong, right? And so he was pretty um at the forefront of recognizing that pejorative slur right away. I think we need to talk a little bit more about that lately because uh soon because that term's being thrown around in ways that need some definitions. Some people use that and really what they're critiquing is any Christian influence at all is a problem. And I think that's uh inherently problematic to use it that way.
Bob:So we've been talking about maybe doing an an underground podcast episode on the Christian nationalism topic. Yeah, let's define some terms. Let's do it, let's make it happen.
Dave:But rest in peace, Vody. Um I haven't heard anything about a funeral service, but I'm sure that'll be coming up soon. And indeed.
Bob:We lost a giant of the faith. We did. Well, speaking of Africa, do we want to go here now? The Nigeria comments. So uh if you've not been following the news over the last number of years, there is a terrorist group in Nigeria called Boko Haram, and they've been going around attacking Christians. And I I think I heard the stat of uh it's been close to a hundred thousand Christians that have been killed by this terrorist group, and even um the liberal comic Bill Marr was commenting on this on one of his last shows, saying, Nobody's covering this, and this is a bit of a problem. This is a genocide that's going on over there. Um, and we need to be praying for our brothers and sisters and also maybe raising the alarm on this.
Dave:Certain parts of Nigeria are safe, other parts are very dangerous, especially the middle belt and the northern regions, and um Christians are being attacked left and right, sometimes right in the middle of worship, large numbers of deaths. Um I think in 2025 I heard the number was like 7,000 so far that have been killed. Uh and there's not just murders, there's also abductions, there's all kinds of things um that are happening that are atrocities in Nigeria, and we certainly need to be aware of that, be prayerful about that, but also think about resourcing them as well. Because talk about genocide, I mean, there's a specific target happening towards a specific group uh that that has a religious affiliation, and that are the Christians in Nigeria. So uh we hear about genocide in other parts of the world, we don't oftentimes hear a lot about this one, but it's definitely something that we need to pay attention to and certainly pray for our persecuted brothers and sisters in Christ.
Bob:The Boko Haram, here's the headline Boko Haram has uh continued to orchestrate deadly attacks targeting Christians in Nigeria throughout 2025. Thousands of deaths, I see here they're estimating 7,000 Christians having been killed in Nigeria so far. That averages 32 to 35 deaths daily. Imagine 35 Christians just being killed daily for your faith. Um Boko Haram and their affiliates are responsible for mass subduct uh killings, abductions, and village raids, especially in northeast Nigeria, which you mentioned. During one attack in August, Boko Haram murdered five Christian farmers in Borno State, followed by a night raid on Musa village, where three sleeping Christians were killed just for their for their faith. So their tactics are to target Christians, churches gatherings, they'll burn those places, they'll kill those who refuse to convert to Islam, and they'll create just a general atmosphere of terror. So this this is a major issue, and we need to be in prayer for them and advocating for them.
Dave:Indeed.
Bob:There you go. Alright, any other news stories before we move on to our next uh segment? Well, I think uh Noah would like to talk about the Giants.
Dave:I think that's a good thing. Three pretty heavy news stories right there. What's happening? Who's on the bench and who's on the field?
Bob:Noah just woke up. Did somebody say Giants?
Noah:Russell Wilson is now on the bench, but uh Jackson Dart is now the starter and had a successful day yesterday.
Dave:Yes. So although the AstroTurf struck again in the Meadowlands.
Noah:Yes, yeah, there have been many uh season endings injuries on that turf. That single field is. They gotta figure it out. It's a big problem. Torn ACL's ruptured Achilles, it's it's pretty terrible. Yeah.
Tim:And uh Tim, you had some news too about a tie score. Oh, yeah. The uh the Cowboys Packers vehicle last night in over in Jerry Land, as the uh the Cowboys fans like to call it, right, Pastor Dave. Um I'm not sure they call it that, but yeah. Cherry World, sorry, not Jerry Land. Um yeah, 40-40 tie against the uh the Packers over there. Quite a quite a football game. So, I mean, how many overtimes do you get before they just call it a tie and quit? In the NFL, um, it's one. Oh, that's it. It's one 10-minute period. I personally, and a lot of people don't like it, um, which I don't understand. I think the college football um overtime is is much more entertaining, um, and there's no ties. So everyone, you get the ball on the 25, so you have uh two sets of downs, essentially, to get into the end zone. Um and you score, and then the next person doesn't. And it's like a snake draft. So so let's say both teams score, then the second team that stores will start with the ball, and then you have to do go for two each time. Um, and you keep doing this until someone eventually wins. Gotcha.
Dave:Indeed. The rules are changing. I you know, I I was at a one of the Somerset Patriots games this summer, and they had extra innings, and they just put a guy on second. I don't know how long that's been happening.
Bob:That's been around for a little bit.
Dave:That's like a way to speed things up a little bit.
Bob:I haven't got to a game recently, but I I did notice the pitch clock. That's a new thing. It helps to speed up the game, and apparently it's slowed the game down by about 30 minutes.
Dave:Oh. Okay. So it's supposed to speed it up, but it actually slowed it down. I mean, I'm sorry, speed it up. Yeah, there you go. Thirty minutes, that's the thing.
Bob:Thirty minutes, yeah, thirty minutes less, because you gotta throw the ball within fifteen seconds of getting it, rather than sitting up there and snaring them down. Yeah. Which I thought was part of the nostalgia of baseball, but you know, I guess we're in a different era. The market demands quicker games.
Dave:Maybe they should put a pitch clock on my sermons.
Bob:Well, there is a clock and you just ignore it. That's true.
Tim:Don't worry about that.
Bob:What is that?
Tim:Get out of here. Anyway, point number five.
Bob:Moving on.
Tim:There we go.
Bob:All right. Now we got time for our next sponsor. This episode of Behind the Pulpit is brought to you by the membership class. I'm gonna let Pastor Dave tell you all about this next sponsor right now. What's happening with membership class, Pastor Dave?
Dave:We're so glad that a lot of you are checking out Millington Baptist Church lately. If you are considering joining our church as a member, this is the class that you'd want to attend, and you need to register for that. And you can do that uh just going on our website. It's gonna be in the second service hour starting on October 12th for those three Sundays in a row. And we hope that you'll check it out. This will give you all the information that you need to make a good and informed decision about whether or not you want to become a member of Millington Baptist Church. I'll be there, Pastor Bob will be there, Amy Huber will be there. Uh, I'm sure some other leaders will be there as well. So check it out.
Bob:We'd love to have you register to the Titans of Millington Baptist Church. The membership class loves behind the pulpit, so thank you so much for supporting the show.
Tim:They are such a supportive sponsor of the show.
Bob:All right. It is time to move on to the next segment. The world famous segment, second only to in the news, the Great Book War. Uh so what I want to know now is do we have some results from our previous week's voting? And uh will you will you guys be overruling or what's what's going on here? How many votes do we have this week?
Tim:We uh we actually had a decent amount of votes.
Bob:We did. All right. Um I forget what I recommended. What do I recommend this week?
Tim:Uh hold on, let me just find the uh the slide thingy here. So, yeah, so we have a uh this was the score coming into this past week. That was an open one, man. It's like the Giants. And the Jets. Well, now the Jets are Oh, did they win?
Bob:All right, maybe I'll be like the Jets.
Tim:No, the Jets, no, the Giants won. The Jets have not, and just like the Jets, Bob is still winless. Uh as a Phoenix of Woman will win Brilliant Harley week. As uh you know, the Bob's fans are starting to push back a little bit. You know, this is wasn't as bad as last week in terms of a margin. All right.
Bob:Um this is like the New Jersey uh voting right here. But uh we did swing a little bit to the right on this voting right here.
Tim:We did. Um I'm going to right now on the show implement a little bit of a um of a legislation. Uh we are gonna figure out a way to revot.
Bob:Voter suppression, Tim.
Tim:We are no, no, no. This is the opposite. We're no, we do not suppress voters here. We we want you to get out to the polls here for the behind the pulpit book war. So we're gonna figure out a way. Yes, vote now and vote early because we are gonna figure out a way at the end of the season to reward those who have voted voted the most. So if you want to be someone who is worthy of a prize, get on the voting. There was five hundred and forty of you who watched last week's episode, and twelve of you voted. Again, a pretty poor ratio.
Bob:Not good versus not good percentages right there.
Tim:Percentage is low.
Bob:12 out of 600 people voted for the book. Um Yep, so uh we'll figure that out. So uh maybe is this segment still worth it, Tim? That's the question, if only 12 people are voting. Bob, I think you need to power through. I think you need to endure to the end. All right. Alright, sounds good. Well, I'll make the first recommendation here today. Um, so I recommended this book over the weekend to somebody else who wanted to get into apologetics. They said, What is a I I want to do some reading on apologetics. I don't know much about it. Where do I start? And uh there's so many good books to recommend, but uh this is a new uh production from the uh from Hendrickson. Uh Timothy Paul Jones, down at Southern Seminary, edited this and contributed a chapter. It's called Understanding Christian Apologetics: Five Methods for Defending the Faith. So the reason I recommended this book is it gives you an overview of five different apologetic methods. There's the classical approach, the evidential approach, the presuppositional approach, the cultural approach, and the ecclesial approach, which I think uh is fairly new. Timothy Paul Jones wrote that chapter. Um, and then there's responses from the other people that are advocating the other methods. So it's one of those kind of point-counterpoint books. Um, but new, well written. If you want to know about apologetics, right here. And they they also give recommended reading at the end of their chapters. So if you want to get started, it's fairly digestible. You can read through this, get a get a quick overview, and then decide where you want to dive in deeper on those recommendations. Understanding Christian apologetics, boom. That's my entry for this week. And over there I see Pastor Dave has a doorstep that he brought with him.
Dave:So I'm bringing this today in honor of the fact that Isaiah chapter 7, which was the sermon from yesterday, has a quotation from uh it used by the Gospel of Matthew. And sometimes it's hard to figure out how the New Testament is using the Old Testament. So it's not always so simple to say here's a prediction and here's a fulfillment. Sometimes there is different ways in which the New Testament uses the Old Testament. Um, in this case, Isaiah chapter 7 has a very complicated use of the Old Testament, and I was greatly helped by looking at Beale and Carson. They have literally cataloged every single time the New Testament quotes the Old Testament and written a commentary about those particular passages to help you understand what the New Testament is doing when it's quoting the Old Testament. So if you need a resource, this is not the kind of book you would want to sit down and like cover to cover read, but it is a book that would be good like on your shelf, or maybe just sitting on the counter in your kitchen, or I don't know, wherever you do your still want people to read the book you're recommending. I want people to have it. It's a it's a resource to own it. I want people to have it within reach, to have to access the wisdom that is here. So there is a section here on Matthew 1, quoting Isaiah 7, that I used, and lots of other stuff. It is it is a classic academic resource. It's put out by Baker, and it is uh well done. So this is my book recommendation for this week. Uh Beal and Carson, the commentary of the New Testament use of the Old Testament.
Bob:Up up next to each other. There we go. Right there. Yeah. This is the and just turn them side by side. There you go. All right. We recommend we'll see what happens. You decide. There is a shorter version of that one I was telling Dave. If you don't want the full one. Go vote. So there you go. Vote. Vote right now.
Dave:Choices are before you. Pause the video, click the link, vote now.
Bob:All right. While you're voting, the next sponsor of our uh wonderful show today is the Underground Sessions. This the Underground Sessions has been a sponsor for many, many years. We've brought them into focus the last couple weeks because the Underground Sessions will be with us this coming Saturday and Sunday, October 4th and 5th, here at Millington Baptist Church. Monique Dusang, Christophontreger, the This Weekend Center for Biblical Unity. And I gotta tell you, there is still time to sign up. Sign up, sign up, sign up, sign up, sign up right now to let us know that you're coming so that we have enough food and books for you this weekend. If you don't sign up, I can't guarantee there'll be food. I definitely can't guarantee if there will be uh there will be a book for you. But we do want you to come. You are gonna be greatly blessed by Monique and Krista. They were also acquaintances of Vodi Bacom, so maybe we'll talk a little bit about Vodi uh this weekend uh posthumously. Uh the underground theme is answering God's call to justice. There also is a leadership workshop on Saturday morning called Walking in Unity on their book about uh biblical answers to race and racism. And we'll be talking about is social justice biblical justice? What is God's call for us in the scriptures? That is going to be the theme Sunday night. Going to be a great time. You'll be blessed. We hope to see you there. Thank you for sponsoring our episode today.
Tim:The Underground, they they love behind the pulpit.
Bob:Underground just get so excited for behind the pulpit. They do. They do. All right. Speaking of behind the pulpit, we've now come to that section of our show called the Sermon Recap. And uh yesterday, Pastor Dave, look at that good-looking guy right there.
Tim:Wow, it looks like the same shirt.
Bob:Wearing the same shirt as yesterday. Uh so we caught him on a fresh wash cycle. He went and washed the shirt and then came back today. Uh moved to the front of the line.
Dave:But anyway, I only wore it for like three hours. I think this needs another day, so I'm decided.
Bob:It's good. It's a good looking shirt, though. You look good in the shirt.
Dave:Appreciate you embarrassing me in front of the whole world wide web with this.
Bob:Well, we'll see how many uh views this episode gets. I know we're picking up steam. Anyway, so we talked about Isaiah chapter seven. We're moving along, and you talked a little bit about trust. Where are you placing your trust? So why don't you give us the the overview of your message and then we'll we'll dive into a couple of your uh uh your your points that don't involve uh chapter seven verse twenty.
Dave:Isaiah chapter seven is when Isaiah moves forward to his um I guess his uh interaction with a king named Ahaz and so we are moving forward chronologically and it's a it's a story about a king who was facing a military crisis and about to be attacked and about to be put under siege and Isaiah the prophet is sent by God to tell him to stand firm in his faith and to trust Yahweh and the king decides not to do that he takes matters into his own hands he comes up with his own savior he pursues his own lord somewhere else besides Yahweh pays off the king of Assyria to come take care of his enemies and spiritually compromises in the process ends up bringing false worship into God's uh territory brings an altar to a foreign god uh greatly displeasing to the Lord the country that he ends up trusting the king of Assyria turns on him starts ravaging through the land of Judah and wreaks havoc uh even in his own backyard and in the midst of all of this disobedience God makes a promise and sends a sign that the virgin will be with child and give birth to a son and you will call his name Emmanuel so even in our failure God still pursues his people and still makes promises to per persev uh to preserve his people and be with us even in the dark times. And so that's the kind of the heart and soul of Isaiah 7 and the theme there is where will you place your trust in a time of crisis when it really when it really comes at you when life gets difficult you know will you be willing to hold on to God and trust him and him alone instead of placing your trust here or there or everywhere. So that's the gist of Isaiah 7.
Bob:And that was a wonderful overview of uh the chapter Pastor Dave you did a good job of pulling out some really good points you helped us think about what our Assyria is you helped us think about um who it is that we're making alliances with in in our uh in our lives so um I did notice on the back of your a chart that you used a chart that I sent you um that I saw on social media uh that I thought was pretty helpful helping us understand a bit of the historical background uh you you also spent a little bit of your sermon talking about what was actually happening because if we didn't know what was going on in 2 Kings 16 we wouldn't really know what chapter 7 was about.
Dave:So why don't you give us a quick overview of that and how this this falls within the uh you know the the the history here isaiah 7 doesn't really give that much detail about what Ahaz is doing so you have to go back and read 2 Kings 16. That's actually our assigned reading for this week and you can read the narrative of what's going on and Ahaz compromises with the the emperor of Assyria asks for his help asks him to rescue him the word rescue is the word Yasha where we get our word for salvation he asks the king to save him and then he builds this altar in memory of the king and in honor of his gods and this altar becomes a symbol of the king's compromise this altar becomes a symbol of who saved them and the person who saved them in this case was the king of Assyria and so um it's a very dark passage. It's a dark time in Israel's history in many ways Ahaz is going to be set up in contrast with his son son Hezekiah who is put in a very similar test of faith later on in the book of Isaiah chapters 3637 3839 and Hezekiah actually passes the test of faith and does much better than his dad in that case but if you didn't know what was going on in 2 Kings 16 you would have a hard time figuring out what's going on in Isaiah 7. So it's an essential background reading for that.
Bob:Well I got a couple questions but before I do that is there anything that you didn't get to put in the sermon that you think is important that you'd like to tell us about well I'll just mention that um Ahaz has a son named Hezekiah and you may be familiar he is very important.
Dave:He he actually digs a very famous tunnel into Jerusalem to provide water into the city in case they do get sieged in the future perhaps he learned a lesson from his father's failings there as a result of that. And I did want to just go through a couple different interpretive options of Isaiah 714 and why I landed the place that I landed but I don't know if that was one of your questions or if you just want to my question was I just want to give you a chance to talk about things you didn't get to talk about yesterday.
Bob:Yeah. And then we'll see if we have enough time for you to answer my questions.
Dave:Okay. So Isaiah 714 most people think of that as just like a straight up prediction prophecy of the virgin birth of Jesus and of course it is but there is a far fulfillment and a near fulfillment there a lot of times prophecies have dual fulfillment some some of them have more than two fulfillments in this case there's at least two and you have to figure out what is the near fulfillment and there's some interpretive decisions that have to be made there. So there's a lot of sons in the book of Isaiah uh there's three major camps in terms of who this son could be so option number one is it's actually the son of Ahaz uh the son named Hezekiah the son that would come and be the next king in the line of Judah and that son would be born and be a sign that God is still going to preserve his promise to King David. The stump will have a shoot that comes out of it and of course we do learn a lot about the coming king in the book of Isaiah but I don't think that that's a good interpretation because Hezekiah was so this whole story takes place around 735 BC Hezekiah was already born hezekiah was already born in like 741 BC so the chronology doesn't work there with that interpretation so I don't really favor that view. A second view that I I liked but I didn't ultimately land there was that the virgin that was going to give birth to a son is actually the nation of Israel as uh she's personified as a woman later on in the book of Isaiah she's called the daughter Zion and she gives birth to a son meaning Israel will continue to um exist they will have children another generation will come and they will not be destroyed by those who take them into exile so that that's a very attractive um interpretation. So Zion is depicted as a wife in Isaiah 54 in Isaiah 62 uh she's called a bride in Isaiah 61 who will miraculously have an abundance of children so it does in many ways fit the context of the book of Isaiah but ultimately I didn't really go there I went with Isaiah chapter 8 where the word Emmanuel is actually used two more times of Isaiah's son Maher Halal Hashbaz who has a name that means quick to plunder, quick to spoil and his name is a prophecy that the nations that they're so afraid of will quickly be plundered and quickly be destroyed. And so that's the sign that God gives to that generation God will be with them he'll preserve them. And then of course later we see 725 years later when Israel again is in a dark predicament um God sends his ultimate son born of a virgin the Messiah Jesus who is God with us so those are some interpretive options that you have to decide. Again I think if you really want to wrestle with this stuff there's a lot more information in this commentary about the use of the Old Testament and the new this will help you through issues like that to kind of sort through the options.
Bob:Very good that was super helpful um so my question Pastor Dave at more applicationally is that you talked a little bit about this idea of faith or fear um and where we run when times get tough so um in in terms of the the is the the king of Assyria um Israel was getting attacked from a bunch of a bunch of sides and rather than trusting in their God Yahweh God they chose to go to the big guy on the block the king of Assyria and say hey I need a little bit of help here and uh he he flattered him with language he he chose to uh the king of uh judah chose to uh uh get get in bed so to speak with with the Assyrians um what I was thinking about is w where does that happen in in our lives in my life wh where do I rather than running to God in prayer and asking for his power and his help and believing that he can intervene um why is it that we don't do that?
Dave:Why do we run to things of this world that we think are going to help us um instead of to instead of to God what what are the alliances that we're making well it's hard to have faith in the midst of a crisis um it's scary um you know ahaz was shook you know the text says and it's very tempting to try to figure things out ourselves when we're scared instead of first going to God um you know I gave a couple examples of this in the sermon you have a health crisis and so you run to Google uh before you go to Jesus in prayer how many people check out Dr. Google nowadays I mean it's like kind of they get even more shook. You know yeah it actually does every time you go read it you're dying so or you know you're facing some kind of financial struggle and you start looking for maybe a credit line or going into debt rather than praying that God would provide or you know sometimes in a cultural crisis people look to politics before they look to trusting God to help us in our situation. There's a lot of different ways that we can make plans without God because when we get shook it can um it can really throw our faith out of whack. You know I told the story about Felicity so she had this car accident in fall of 2023 October 2023 she was driving to school one morning and lost control of the car she ended up ramming into a telephone pole and then I was on my way to work and the police called and said you know is your dad are you her dad? I'm like yes she said my hip hurts and we just didn't know what was wrong with her. So they couldn't get her out of the car they had to use the thing to get her out of the car rushed her to the ER Grandview in Bucks County and I'm like driving as fast as I can I called Julie we have to pick her up on the way home. Actually I swung by the neighborhood and Julie had already left our house she started walking um just to save me like 30 30 seconds from picking her up at the house and so I'm like okay get in so we're driving we're speeding we're you know we're praying the whole way and um those kind of times of crisis we have to remember to to call on the name of the Lord the name that is above every name he he hears us and he invites us to trust in him that's what the prophet is encouraging Ahaz to do. He's having a hard time doing that and it's um frustrating to king i to the prophet Isaiah that the king's acting like that so yeah I mean it's a temptation that they faced back then but I think it's a temptation we face today. Maybe we want to cut corners legally instead of follow every little jot and tittle of the law. Maybe we want to um you know somehow come up with a scheme or a plan that's maybe unethical and um like my mentor used to say sometimes I like to help God out a little bit you know um to come up with a way to you know make this make this less scary.
Bob:So a lot of different ways that can apply. Good good it's it's uh certainly very applicable. I mean I'm sure as you're listening you can think about different times where this has been true in your life and we've run to our proverbial king of Assyria and uh maybe they even help us out but then uh things can change down the road and we become indebted to that king and that king may uh may turn on us if we're not careful.
Dave:Yeah one of the things I think strategically textually we have to remember is chapter six is before chapter seven for a reason. So Isaiah has this exalted picture of the sovereign God of the universe on the throne and it helps us to remember that he really does have this whole thing in control and we have to read the book of Isaiah through that lens. The one who is sovereign is also holy and uh he's at the center and we can trust that he's occupying that throne.
Bob:Yeah. And one of the things we talked about with Isaiah six is that it was it was a hinged chapter uh talking resolving the tension that was happening in the first five chapters how how in the world can God come in and and do something to this this uh era of judgments and Israel turning away and then you have this beautiful picture of of God and his holiness in chapter six and then immediately you get the contrast in chapter seven where the king of Judah should know who this God is and yet he's turning away from him and going to suffer the consequences as we continue to go on.
Dave:And the other thing about chapter six is at the very end though there's destruction prophesied there's this stump that's smoldering. Stump man. And we know that there's a holy seed inside of the stump. There's a promise that's made that God is not only on his throne but he's also made a promise to take care of his people and so that's something that we can count on as well. And sometimes that's hard to do but Isaiah's giving us hints that our God is worth worth trusting and his word is is trustworthy.
Bob:I think maybe the title of this episode should be look to the stump look to the stump Pastor Dave.
Dave:We will continue to talk about this stump on the stump you know we didn't talk about chapter five but chapter five is this vineyard um israel Israel is likened to a vineyard and there's a it's like a judgment cycle and so the reason why the vineyard is going to be judged is because of some of the behaviors we see in chapter seven because the leaders are acting like this this is why God ultimately has to chop the tree of Israel down so to speak and start over with this holy seed this branch that comes out of the the stump.
Bob:Amen there you go well this week we're gonna be jumping into chapter nine so I'll do my best to give give an overview of chapter eight but we're gonna be specifically focusing on verses six and seven and uh the very famous one uh very famous verses that uh that are written at Christmas that uh you know uh there is going to be one who comes who is called wonderful God, mighty counselor or prince of peace and uh the government is going to rest on his shoulders and he's gonna be the one who brings justice and righteousness. And so we're gonna focus on the that verse uh particularly because the underground sessions is this week we're talking about God's call to justice and so that'll be another theme in the sermon sermon this week but I'll do my best to give the overview of chapter eight and nine particularly nine as we look at as we continue our journey through Isaiah so that'll be this upcoming week.
Dave:Hope you're enjoying the study uh don't forget to send in your questions we are still taking questions right Tim if people have uh something they want to ask us clarity on we can do that.
Tim:If you are in our in person on Sunday mornings there's a graphic that comes up in the rotator um that you need to encourage folks more to do that.
Bob:I actually got an email from our favorite uh question asker oh Mr John Rickershauser it's not a question but he was noting on the uh on the slide there on the graphic that which which one uh the the one in the rotator graphic that you guys are in the different seats in the graphic than you are ah so in the news I did tell you we need we do need to get a new graphic Tim oh even in the lobby we got the the behind the pulpit it involved me and Rachel and Rachel is an infrequent guest here although maybe we should get her back one of these weeks.
Tim:Yeah that was the you and when when Dave was on his suit sabbatical it switched with my rotate my rotating guest that came in. Yeah since uh that graphic out there I don't know if it's changed but the one on the the rotator has since changed so good well maybe maybe a new one of us. Oh we'll work on something yeah okay very observant John I'm impressed yeah I saw I actually saw him taking the picture John I saw him taking the picture and I thought that he was asking a question and turns out he was just taking the picture oh he took a picture and sent it to you?
Bob:Yeah he it's uh he's gonna give you the business right there Tim all right so our final sponsor of today's episode is the leadership workshop uh Walking in Unity that's happening this coming Saturday morning I keep getting dinged saying people were signing up for it and there's still spots so please go and sign up here is the thing about this one we are giving you breakfast you will get breakfast and you will get a book free breakfast free book and you're gonna get an amazing seminar from Monique and Krista on how to walk in unity as it relates to biblical answers to racism and race. So this is going to be happening this coming Saturday walking in unity loves behind the pulpit and uh we we are super excited to have uh Monique and Krista and the entire walking in unity family uh with us this uh this coming Saturday morning so please go and sign up right now that QR code is just begging you to scan it and sign up for this event so that we have the appropriate amount of food and books uh for when you come scan me I'm I'm always a little confused with the QR codes here so I mean so let's say if I'm watching this on my device code maker over here with uh with Noah well if you're watching or listening to this on your device so let's say you are watching the pod on your phone or you are listening on one of the many podcast platforms that you can consume this show on you could such as where?
Tim:Spotify Amazon Prime podcasts don't forget to subscribe to YouTube Apple Podcasts pod VladCat there's there's if you listen to podcasts anywhere it's on there. Uh hello um but yeah just go down to the show notes everything's there you can find uh trunk or treat information you can find underground sessions information you can find the link to vote for the book war um there's there's many things in there I understand okay well very good all right well thank you so much Tim we'll hope to see you Saturday Sunday and then we'll be back Monday next Monday here on Behind the Pulpit to recap everything that happened uh during the Underground and walking in unity weekend all right we've come to the end it's time to sprint now that we're happy we're gonna have Kristen and uh Monique here Monday are we?
Dave:No.
Bob:No they're well unless we can convince them I'm not sure what time they're leaving on on Monday or Sunday so we can talk with them but uh yeah that would be kind of cool though if we could do that we'll see we'll see what they say. Just ask them I'm not I'm not hopeful. I did not sign them up. So this this would have to be you using your persuader gift as well. This would have to be out of the goodness of their hearts it would be yeah their contract says they shall make no other appearances but maybe you can persuade them so we'll see. Alright all right Sprint Sprint I'm out of breath what do we got all right I got let me drink some water over here there it is the theology sprint yes angry Dave is back.
Dave:He takes theology very seriously first of all go back to that picture you're wearing my shirt and I'm wearing an auto mechanic shirt from Jiffy Loo.
Bob:I have a jumpsuit on and I'm working in the pit he just came from changing the taking the filters off downstairs.
Dave:That's what I'm my job is and I got a microphone down there and I'm like anybody got any theology questions?
Bob:What am I doing with my hands?
Tim:Chat GPT came up am I always ever doing that with my hands you are dancing chat GPT must have done some extended research and learned about your your your your history in the theater I do Dave's like let me answer your question and Bob's like that's so good I want to dance.
Dave:Dave Dave's answer is so good I want to dance.
Bob:I do like that ChatGPT gave me more hair though and darker hair took away my gray and gave me a full full head of hair there. So I'll take that me and my overalls I believe this was they they took this from the the picture of you on on our website where you're wearing I believe this is the Southern Seminary quarter zip oh maybe maybe there you go that's but there's no Southern Seminary logo on there so it looks like copyright copyright looks looks like a mechanic shirt.
Noah:Oh yeah you we need to fix that grease monkey is ready all right it is time for our theology sprint for this week thank you Noah and so this week's question is is there an age of accountability for salvation oh my goodness good question did you ask this because Isaiah 7 talks about it no no no it was just the spirit was moving over there.
Bob:Alright this was a big part of my reading so something you didn't bring up how come you didn't bring this up in the sermon discussion I forgot clearly the Holy Spirit wanted you to talk about this so let's talk about it right now.
Dave:Wow okay Dave's he's he's ready to do a uh a a mid sprint right here all right so everyone go to the bathroom go cover your go cover your feet and uh we have a few more minutes of this episode so the feet Isaiah seven verse fifteen um actually mentions this concept of this kid will come and before he knows the evil or the good and then it mentions that again I think in verse 17 and there's this sort of technical terminology about uh there's some time in our lives when we will then be able to know the evil and the good and so some people from that verse and there's some other verses like uh in the old testament such as the children of the Exodus generation who get to grow up and uh they're not um they're not disciplined or they're not destroyed like their parents so for some reason God gives the little ones a chance there and so from that sometimes people surmise that maybe there's this thing called like an age of accountability maybe there's a certain age some people say it's like twelve where at that point God will hold people responsible I'm not too sure the Bible's crystal clear on that I don't I don't hate the conversation but I don't think the Bible is as clear as I would like it to be on that but I did study a lot about that this week and I felt like I came up with no firm firm answer on that. I don't know Bob if you've ever taken a gander at this concept of like is there an age of accountability do you have an opinion? I don't have an opinion I I need to think about it more although I'm certainly familiar with the concept but I hadn't taken a firm position on it and it does I think to some extent make sense but I I I need to I need to dig in a bit more well that was not the best sprint in the world but so so can we bring back the sprint next week with the same question with the better answer was that a torn ACL sprint yeah it was it was it was not it was not the best sprint I don't I don't know that we crossed we kind of crawled across the finish line it might have been Do you want a chip shot for this week?
Bob:We'll come back to it next week do some study this week shot an important question we need to give a good answer to it.
Noah:Here's a chip shot for this week what is the difference between biblical theology and systematic theology oh my goodness you want to answer it or do you want me to do it?
Bob:You go ahead Systematic theology looks at the entire Bible and chooses to systemize what the Bible says about a particular doctrine. So if we're talking about soteriology that's the doctrine of salvation systematic theology will look at the entire Bible and put it into a system biblical theology tends to focus on what the particular authors say about a topic within their writings. So you may have a Johannine take on something you may have a Pauline take on something. Biblical theology also tends to focus a little bit more on the general storyline of the Bible and how we get from the beginning to the end. What would you add to that or correct?
Dave:Yeah that's a good answer. I think that's how I would have answered it too.
Bob:Is that long enough for a sprint? Do I need to keep going? That is long enough for a sprint. Alright there you go.
Dave:Yep. Do you have like a whole list of sprint options just like on deck in case we fumble like that or I've got a menu over here.
Noah:A menu varying difficulties some a la carte sprints okay okay there you go we'll have to have an episode of just episode to sprint the tour to sprint.
Bob:Tour to sprint yeah we'll have uh 30 stages and we'll have 30 sprints and we're all right we're gonna dig into that uh age of accountability question and come back next week so we're we're prepared but thank you so much for joining us from behind the pulpit this week go and sign up for Underground Walking in unity we're gonna have a lot to talk about next week uh Isaiah 9 Pastor Dave's gonna be in the driver's seat maybe we're in a different shirt we'll see uh we'll see you next week growing shape see you guys